I’m honestly tired of debating that point again and again. However, to summarize my stance on this: If parents are unable or unwilling to monitor what their child is playing or spending money on, that is not the problem of steam - or any platform for that matter. It’s also not EAs fault if a child is spending thousands of bucks in ultimate team. If my child stole my credit card and did that, I would refund the money immediately and get his account locked. It’s honestly tiring of hearing people demanding companies to “protect the children” when many parents do fuck all to protect or educate THEIR children.
I can’t even discribe how sad it is to be a person that needs to get defensive about a corporation because their service is alright for the most part.
Saying that a 30% cut is justified for everything steam offers isn’t “defending” steam, it’s just stating my opinion, but yeah whatever, you do you.
It’s honestly tiring of hearing people demanding companies to “protect the children” when many parents do fuck all to protect or educate THEIR children.
That’s exactly why they need to do more… Children shouldn’t suffer because corporations exploit them and their shitty parents.
Disagree. Not because I don’t want corporations to do something, but because the ways they’d need to implement are a net-negative overall.
There’s a huge discussion going on right now about age verification on OS level. That’s exactly the kind of shitty results we get when we have other entities being responsible for child safety than the parents. And that’s not a world I want to live in. I don’t want to have to upload my government ID to any service I want to use and live in a borderline surveillance state because parents aren’t able to pay attention to their children.
It’s not just about the children buddy. Adults are vulnerable too. There’s no need to throw them off the cliff just because they passed that special age mark. Your solution about requiring id check to prevent children from gambling wouldn’t do anything about adults because the issue is far more fundamental and about how the system is structured not how you enter it. Also it’s not about corporations doing parent’s job but about wanting something as simple as corporations not exploiting people including in big part children. You’re paiting this thread like valve is good and we are asking valve to do more good by doing job of the parents while in reality we want valve to stop doing evil that valve does. And yet you will insist that you are not defending a corporation. The delusion is crazy.
Yes, but those adults are responsible for themselves.
You’re paiting this thread like valve is good and we are asking valve to do more good by doing job of the parents while in reality we want valve to stop doing evil that valve does.
No, not at all. I just don’t think that offering a marketplace that is abused by a massive third party gambling industry is “evil”. The marketplace in general is a cool feature imo and I see no reason to remove it. As soon as you introduce rarity, you will have a certain value attached to those items. It’s a lot like playing an MMO - if you have a rare drop, you can sell that shit on ebay for actual money. Removing the entire concept of value from skins is honestly pretty stupid. And all because you want to “protect the children” and people with no impulse control.
In short: You want to take a feature away because some people abuse it and potentially harm people, and I just don’t think that’s right.
And yet you will insist that you are not defending a corporation. The delusion is crazy.
It’s not about defending valve, it’s about me not wanting people like you to remove good features from platforms.
It isn’t. There are lots of other ways. Gambling is a heavily regulated industry. Valve just sidesteps this by not being designated as such.
I do want parents to do their job. The problem is they don’t, and there’s nothing we can do about that. And who suffers when they don’t? Not me, not you, and not the parents. Its the children.
What are these other ways then? Hell, if you can think of something that does not include age verification or the removal of the entire steam marketplace, I’m more than willing to listen.
Gambling is a heavily regulated industry
And all of those regulated gambling sites (at least those in the EU) require you to provide ID or a valid bank account - both things you only have as an adult and basically qualify as an age verification. There is no other way. You cannot ensure a person is who she says she is if you have no legal document. And yes, of course a child could steal it from their parents, but then the parent is legally responsible for any damages that incur.
The problem is they don’t, and there’s nothing we can do about that
Oh, there definitely is things we can do about that. We can punish the parents if kids use social media before legal age, for example. In germany, there are fines on certain things. If you child is missing from school repeatedly, for example, you can get fined. And I feel it’s time to punish parents if their child does stuff on the internet that it shouldn’t do and the parents have absolutely a chance to prevent the behavior. A child won’t buy a smartphone/PC and a internet connection by themselves. These are provided by the parents and the parents then have the responsibility to set up the device in a way that ensures their child is protected.
And who suffers when they don’t? Not me, not you, and not the parents. Its the children.
Initially, yes. When overreaching government surveillance is introduced (only to protect the children and avoid terrorism, of course), I’m suffering pretty badly aswell since that’s not a world I want to live in. And that’s not a world you want to live in either.
So this might be harsh to say, but the future of society is more important than the kids with shitty parents.
I’m honestly tired of debating that point again and again. However, to summarize my stance on this: If parents are unable or unwilling to monitor what their child is playing or spending money on, that is not the problem of steam - or any platform for that matter. It’s also not EAs fault if a child is spending thousands of bucks in ultimate team. If my child stole my credit card and did that, I would refund the money immediately and get his account locked. It’s honestly tiring of hearing people demanding companies to “protect the children” when many parents do fuck all to protect or educate THEIR children.
Saying that a 30% cut is justified for everything steam offers isn’t “defending” steam, it’s just stating my opinion, but yeah whatever, you do you.
That’s exactly why they need to do more… Children shouldn’t suffer because corporations exploit them and their shitty parents.
Disagree. Not because I don’t want corporations to do something, but because the ways they’d need to implement are a net-negative overall.
There’s a huge discussion going on right now about age verification on OS level. That’s exactly the kind of shitty results we get when we have other entities being responsible for child safety than the parents. And that’s not a world I want to live in. I don’t want to have to upload my government ID to any service I want to use and live in a borderline surveillance state because parents aren’t able to pay attention to their children.
Ager verification is absolutely not a necessity to curtail gambling, obviously.
It is. There is no other way to “protect the children” if you don’t want parents to do their job.
It’s not just about the children buddy. Adults are vulnerable too. There’s no need to throw them off the cliff just because they passed that special age mark. Your solution about requiring id check to prevent children from gambling wouldn’t do anything about adults because the issue is far more fundamental and about how the system is structured not how you enter it. Also it’s not about corporations doing parent’s job but about wanting something as simple as corporations not exploiting people including in big part children. You’re paiting this thread like valve is good and we are asking valve to do more good by doing job of the parents while in reality we want valve to stop doing evil that valve does. And yet you will insist that you are not defending a corporation. The delusion is crazy.
Yes, but those adults are responsible for themselves.
No, not at all. I just don’t think that offering a marketplace that is abused by a massive third party gambling industry is “evil”. The marketplace in general is a cool feature imo and I see no reason to remove it. As soon as you introduce rarity, you will have a certain value attached to those items. It’s a lot like playing an MMO - if you have a rare drop, you can sell that shit on ebay for actual money. Removing the entire concept of value from skins is honestly pretty stupid. And all because you want to “protect the children” and people with no impulse control.
In short: You want to take a feature away because some people abuse it and potentially harm people, and I just don’t think that’s right.
It’s not about defending valve, it’s about me not wanting people like you to remove good features from platforms.
It isn’t. There are lots of other ways. Gambling is a heavily regulated industry. Valve just sidesteps this by not being designated as such.
I do want parents to do their job. The problem is they don’t, and there’s nothing we can do about that. And who suffers when they don’t? Not me, not you, and not the parents. Its the children.
What are these other ways then? Hell, if you can think of something that does not include age verification or the removal of the entire steam marketplace, I’m more than willing to listen.
And all of those regulated gambling sites (at least those in the EU) require you to provide ID or a valid bank account - both things you only have as an adult and basically qualify as an age verification. There is no other way. You cannot ensure a person is who she says she is if you have no legal document. And yes, of course a child could steal it from their parents, but then the parent is legally responsible for any damages that incur.
Oh, there definitely is things we can do about that. We can punish the parents if kids use social media before legal age, for example. In germany, there are fines on certain things. If you child is missing from school repeatedly, for example, you can get fined. And I feel it’s time to punish parents if their child does stuff on the internet that it shouldn’t do and the parents have absolutely a chance to prevent the behavior. A child won’t buy a smartphone/PC and a internet connection by themselves. These are provided by the parents and the parents then have the responsibility to set up the device in a way that ensures their child is protected.
Initially, yes. When overreaching government surveillance is introduced (only to protect the children and avoid terrorism, of course), I’m suffering pretty badly aswell since that’s not a world I want to live in. And that’s not a world you want to live in either.
So this might be harsh to say, but the future of society is more important than the kids with shitty parents.