Even if only one person at the bar is a Nazi, if you keep going everyone is going to call you a Nazi as well once the bar is known for being on with Nazis.
As long as your ok with being associated with the thing the place is known for then it doesn’t really matter.
The vocal group of a place is it’s face no matter how big or small that group is.
Right, and there’s no one who supports Putin on .ml.
For a group of people who like to fellate themselves talking about “nuance” you people struggle with anyone who has a deeper analysis than “Putin evil, Russians are orcs, Russia is Mordor, Europe is full of elves, zelensky is Aragorn”. It makes you see red and go “OH SO YOU LOVE PUTIN??? WOWWWW”
Ah yes, I made a typo and therefore anything I say is dumb and wrong.
You made the assertion that no one on ml supports putin. I’ve argued with many people on ml who support what russia is doing in Ukraine. Now, im not so naive to say that everyone who supports russias annexation is a putin supporter, but by the very fact they support his actions, they implicitly have some level of support of putin. It ain’t hard bruh.
Ah yes, I made a typo and therefore anything I say is dumb and wrong.
What else was there to respond to in your text?
You made the assertion that no one on ml supports putin.
And your response was an emoji and then a spelling error. What do you think you did?
I’ve argued with many people on ml who support what russia is doing in Ukraine.
Which isn’t the same as “supporting Putin”. And I have a feeling if you provided receipts to your statement we’d go from “thinks what russia is doing is awesome!” to “thinks the fallout from the war is a net positive, and understands why events occurred as they did.”
But until you actually provide receipts, it’s just yet another person yelling about how these damn tankies just love putin and russia and hate democracy and whatever. If this is to continue then I think, beyond actually proving your claims, that we need to establish what you mean when you say “supports”. Do you just mean “will not call him Satan himself and denounce every action as being motivated by pure evil”? or something more substantial than that?
Now, im not so naive to say that everyone who supports russias annexation is a putin supporter, but by the very fact they support his actions, they implicitly have some level of support of putin. It ain’t hard bruh.
I already said it. I’ve had so many interactions where people defend his actions, shielding him from criticism. You dont have to explicitly say “I support putin and all he does” to support putin. Its not like they have i support putin stickers on.
You talk about nuance, there it is.
You’re welcome to go through my comment history and see for yourself
Just to spare you some sanity – most of these tankies who have a hard-on for and simp on behalf of Eastern Authoritarian genocidal apologists have a tendency to be a part of the 50 Cent Party or some derivative troll farm. They literally get paid to post comments; meanwhile Lemmy itself has limited control over sockpuppet account duplication. Just know there are sane people on here and don’t waste your time too much. Stay on message in the first comment or two and let them run their mouths if they wish.
Ask the typical tankie from ml or hexbear whether they agree that Putin should face his criminal charges at the ICC and is just as much a war criminal as Bibi and that they were wrong to invade Ukraine and wage an attempted genocide, and whether China and North Korea are also complicit in genocide for supporting Russia’s illegal invasion. I bet the majority dodge the straightforward question with what should be a straightforward answer.
Don’t be dismayed by conglomeration of either young and naive kool-aid drinkers, or the actual foreign operatives (for which we know have major online troll farms).
Russia is engaged in a war with a near peer, Israel is committing an extermination campaign on Palestine using stolen land. I have no love for Putin, reactionary nationalist that he is, but to equate the Russo-Ukrainian war with the genocide of Palestine is to make a mockery of genocide. Further, such a blanket statement erases the plight of the people of the Donbass region, who have been at war with Kiev since 2014 and who want to join the Russian Federation. The Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics have just as much a right to self-determination as Palestinians do.
Condemn Putin all you want, I have no love for him as I said. Hang him if you will. But don’t undermine the actual plight of the many decades of genocide committed against the Palestinian people to “own the tankies.” You have a history of undermining the plight of Palestinians, this isn’t a new development for you, it’s a repeated pattern.
Agreeing makes no assertions as to the relative severity of the genocide (for there is of course always a worse genocide capable of being perpetrated); it simply agrees that both are war criminals who should be prosecuted relative to their stated War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.
Seeing you devolve into Pro-Kremlin propaganda as any good Vatnik does, I am not surprised in the slightest. Defending traitors of the Donbass like one would the Confederacy of the US Civil War is equally atrocious. I wonder if you could even acknowledge that MH17 was brought down by a Russian BUK.
So in more ways than one, you revealed your hand in this comment.
Thus neutral audience take note as this individual is a case-in-point: They could not simply say “Yes.”
Edit: Fun little scavenger-hunt. Can anyone spot the other subtlety revealing their Russo-bias?
Ukraine is not being subject to genocide. It is a peer-near peer war. The genocide in Palestine is a mass extermination campaign. To the extent that Putin should be tried for war crimes, so should Zelensky and the government in Kiev, who have had allegations of war crimes independently investigated since 2014 when the Ukrainian Civil War began. Zelensky himself won his presidency in 2019 on the basis of downscaling the war, but instead continued pressing forward.
As for the struggle of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics, equating them to the slavers of the Confederacy is enormously farcical. The people of the DPR and LPR seceded not to commit slavery, but because the president they popularly supported was coup’d by the Bandera-upholding factions in the Euromaidan coup.
The people of the Donbass speak Russian at higher degrees than most of the rest of Ukraine, and thus the language laws restricting Russian also facilitated the decision to leave. The people of the Donbass have the right to self-determination, just like the people of Palestine. The Confederacy had no such right because they were separating in order to continue slavery, not because they were escaping instability and the suppression of the language they spoke.
The “neutral audience,” which does not exist as nobody is truly neutral, can see plainly how you undermine the plight of Palestinians and the people of the Donbass region plainly.
^ This is baseless Pro-Kremlin misinformation and revisionist history that attempts to justify the illegal annexation of sovereign Ukrainian land. Genocides can indeed be perpetrated between “peers” (though it’s hilarious that there was once a point Ruzzia didn’t consider them to be a peer, hence the 3 day SMO (LOL!). So here this sadistic genocide-endorser condones the relentless strikes of civilian cities and death of Ukrainian children just the same, all of which could stop if Ruzzia simply left Ukraine’s sovereign land, including Donbas and Crimea.
I’m not here to justify anything. I am here to point out your trivialization of genocide in Palestine and your disregard for the people of the Donbass region. When you hurl allegations of genocide as though they are meaningless, you make light of the most widely documented and understood ongoing genocide in the world. Standing up for Palestine and taking an accurate view against blatant undermining of their plight is not “pro-Kremlin.” I already said you could hang Putin, he’s a reactionary nationalist.
Saying “free Palestine” is hypocritical when you’ve said this zinger:
Just as you call Donetsk and Luhansk “traitors,” you also cape for settler-colonialism and give Israel a free pass. This is pure liberal Zionism, both-sidesing a genocide. This is further driven home by the fact that only 4 countries internationally recognize genocide committed by Russia:
While the vast majority of the world recognizes the genocide in Palestine:
None of this is “pro-Kremlin.” Above all, I stand with the people of Palestine, as well as those in the Donbass, in their struggles for self-determination, as is in line with Marxism-Leninism.
Irrelevant copy-pasta aside that in no way shape or form undermines or refutes a modicum of my points, why didn’t you just say yes?
Also weird one thinks invading and bombing Kyiv children is okay. As if UK could invade USA if suddenly parts of new England became sympathetic to England again hahahaha!
There’s no copypasta, and I refuted every one of your points. I also backed up every one of my points, referencing purely western, pro-Ukrainian sources. You dodged every single point of mine, and regularly accuse communists of being paid agitators, bots, or sockpuppets, rather than actually engage with the points at hand. All of this to defend Israel and the west.
I never justified any bombing of children either, this is just blood libel. The scale isn’t “totally okay” vs. “Genocide,” this is a cartoonishly black and white view of the world.
Well its not one question, its a bunch lumped together.
Should Putin face criminal charges at the ICC?
Sure
like Bibi?
Neither Putin nor Netanyahu are the issues with their nation or the driving force behind what is going on. Putin is in fact the moderate in the Russian government, waiting much longer than what most of his colleagues wanted him to with regards to invasion and subsequent escalation. Like how 80+% of israelis support the genocide.
If you want him convicted? Probably not.
He’s just as much a war criminal
No. Israel is enacting an actual genocide against a defenceless population, the genocide has been going on since 1947 and has drastically accelerated these last few years.
While there are many accusations of genocide against Russia, its pretty clear (as has been thoroughly investigated by international observers - whom have been allowed to investigate, unlike in Israel) that, while there are civilian casualties, the goal of the russian military is to win a war against Ukraine, not exterminate a people.
he was wrong to invade Ukraine
Honestly, this one is tough. I feel like it was wrong, but I understand why Russia did it - the NATO posturing, the brinksmanship, the constant breaches of treaties… At a certain point one has to ask what else Russia could do. Now I know how you’re going to take this “OH SO YOU SUPPORT RUSSIA YOU CONDONE AHHH” but really if you actually read what I write, then that’s not what I am saying. I am saying, given russias position, russias interest in remaining a sovereign country, the threat against Russia (perceived or real), the situation Russia was in was one where the only outcome given to it was invasion. Its not like it did not try diplomacy first.
wage an attempted genocide
Wait, aren’t you the zionist who couldn’t say Israel is committing a genocide? A classic zionist tactic is cheapening the word by using it to describe any hostile action. Im sorry, but between Russia and Ukraine, Russia is not the one who has systematically pursued an ethnic minority, banned the language of that minority, bombed the fuck out of areas with that minority and all that stuff.
China and North Korea are also complicit in genocide for supporting Russia’s illegal invasion.
Since I don’t see how Russia is committing a genocide (because genocide isn’t just “when you are at war” if that were the case then the Native Americans committed genocide against colonists in the 17- and 1800’s. I hope we can both see how ridiculous that is.) They are giving support to Russia, so they are complicit. Id like to know what makes the invasion of Ukraine less legal than other invasions before I agree on the “illegal” part.
for which we know have major online troll farms
Everyone Who Disagrees With Me Is A Foreigner.
This refrain of yours is so odd to me, because I never see you invokenit with people you agree with, despite the fact there’s also massive pro-us-regime botfarms.
It’s just the Nazi bar problem.
Even if only one person at the bar is a Nazi, if you keep going everyone is going to call you a Nazi as well once the bar is known for being on with Nazis.
As long as your ok with being associated with the thing the place is known for then it doesn’t really matter.
The vocal group of a place is it’s face no matter how big or small that group is.
Right, and there’s no one who supports Putin on .ml.
For a group of people who like to fellate themselves talking about “nuance” you people struggle with anyone who has a deeper analysis than “Putin evil, Russians are orcs, Russia is Mordor, Europe is full of elves, zelensky is Aragorn”. It makes you see red and go “OH SO YOU LOVE PUTIN??? WOWWWW”
🧢🧢🧢
What?
It means your statement is bs
*your
edit: anyways prove it. You people keep making this claim, yet none of you have any proof. I should think it would be easy
Ah yes, I made a typo and therefore anything I say is dumb and wrong.
You made the assertion that no one on ml supports putin. I’ve argued with many people on ml who support what russia is doing in Ukraine. Now, im not so naive to say that everyone who supports russias annexation is a putin supporter, but by the very fact they support his actions, they implicitly have some level of support of putin. It ain’t hard bruh.
What else was there to respond to in your text?
And your response was an emoji and then a spelling error. What do you think you did?
Which isn’t the same as “supporting Putin”. And I have a feeling if you provided receipts to your statement we’d go from “thinks what russia is doing is awesome!” to “thinks the fallout from the war is a net positive, and understands why events occurred as they did.”
But until you actually provide receipts, it’s just yet another person yelling about how these damn tankies just love putin and russia and hate democracy and whatever. If this is to continue then I think, beyond actually proving your claims, that we need to establish what you mean when you say “supports”. Do you just mean “will not call him Satan himself and denounce every action as being motivated by pure evil”? or something more substantial than that?
I already said it. I’ve had so many interactions where people defend his actions, shielding him from criticism. You dont have to explicitly say “I support putin and all he does” to support putin. Its not like they have i support putin stickers on.
You talk about nuance, there it is.
You’re welcome to go through my comment history and see for yourself
Just to spare you some sanity – most of these tankies who have a hard-on for and simp on behalf of Eastern Authoritarian genocidal apologists have a tendency to be a part of the 50 Cent Party or some derivative troll farm. They literally get paid to post comments; meanwhile Lemmy itself has limited control over sockpuppet account duplication. Just know there are sane people on here and don’t waste your time too much. Stay on message in the first comment or two and let them run their mouths if they wish.
Thanks for that. I’ve had my fair share of run ins with ml peeps. But I appreciate you reaching out!
Ask the typical tankie from ml or hexbear whether they agree that Putin should face his criminal charges at the ICC and is just as much a war criminal as Bibi and that they were wrong to invade Ukraine and wage an attempted genocide, and whether China and North Korea are also complicit in genocide for supporting Russia’s illegal invasion. I bet the majority dodge the straightforward question with what should be a straightforward answer.
Don’t be dismayed by conglomeration of either young and naive kool-aid drinkers, or the actual foreign operatives (for which we know have major online troll farms).
EDIT: Case in point, lol.
Russia is engaged in a war with a near peer, Israel is committing an extermination campaign on Palestine using stolen land. I have no love for Putin, reactionary nationalist that he is, but to equate the Russo-Ukrainian war with the genocide of Palestine is to make a mockery of genocide. Further, such a blanket statement erases the plight of the people of the Donbass region, who have been at war with Kiev since 2014 and who want to join the Russian Federation. The Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics have just as much a right to self-determination as Palestinians do.
Condemn Putin all you want, I have no love for him as I said. Hang him if you will. But don’t undermine the actual plight of the many decades of genocide committed against the Palestinian people to “own the tankies.” You have a history of undermining the plight of Palestinians, this isn’t a new development for you, it’s a repeated pattern.
Agreeing makes no assertions as to the relative severity of the genocide (for there is of course always a worse genocide capable of being perpetrated); it simply agrees that both are war criminals who should be prosecuted relative to their stated War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.
Seeing you devolve into Pro-Kremlin propaganda as any good Vatnik does, I am not surprised in the slightest. Defending traitors of the Donbass like one would the Confederacy of the US Civil War is equally atrocious. I wonder if you could even acknowledge that MH17 was brought down by a Russian BUK.
So in more ways than one, you revealed your hand in this comment.
Thus neutral audience take note as this individual is a case-in-point: They could not simply say “Yes.”
Edit: Fun little scavenger-hunt. Can anyone spot the other subtlety revealing their Russo-bias?
Ukraine is not being subject to genocide. It is a peer-near peer war. The genocide in Palestine is a mass extermination campaign. To the extent that Putin should be tried for war crimes, so should Zelensky and the government in Kiev, who have had allegations of war crimes independently investigated since 2014 when the Ukrainian Civil War began. Zelensky himself won his presidency in 2019 on the basis of downscaling the war, but instead continued pressing forward.
As for the struggle of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics, equating them to the slavers of the Confederacy is enormously farcical. The people of the DPR and LPR seceded not to commit slavery, but because the president they popularly supported was coup’d by the Bandera-upholding factions in the Euromaidan coup.
The people of the Donbass speak Russian at higher degrees than most of the rest of Ukraine, and thus the language laws restricting Russian also facilitated the decision to leave. The people of the Donbass have the right to self-determination, just like the people of Palestine. The Confederacy had no such right because they were separating in order to continue slavery, not because they were escaping instability and the suppression of the language they spoke.
The “neutral audience,” which does not exist as nobody is truly neutral, can see plainly how you undermine the plight of Palestinians and the people of the Donbass region plainly.
^ This is baseless Pro-Kremlin misinformation and revisionist history that attempts to justify the illegal annexation of sovereign Ukrainian land. Genocides can indeed be perpetrated between “peers” (though it’s hilarious that there was once a point Ruzzia didn’t consider them to be a peer, hence the 3 day SMO (LOL!). So here this sadistic genocide-endorser condones the relentless strikes of civilian cities and death of Ukrainian children just the same, all of which could stop if Ruzzia simply left Ukraine’s sovereign land, including Donbas and Crimea.
Stop simping for dictators.
Slava Ukraini
Free Palestine
See? That easy.
What did I say that is baseless? Be very specific. Is it the fact that Russian is spoken at higher rates in the Donbass?
Or is it that the people of Donetsk and Luhansk seceded in 2014, in response to Euromaidan?
Or, perhaps, is it that Ukraine is also guilty of targeting civilians in Russia, not to speak of the Donbass region?
Meanwhile, even the minimum confirmed deaths of Palestinians are multiple times the confirmed deaths of Ukrainian civilians, despite Ukraine being in an active war for a year longer.
I’m not here to justify anything. I am here to point out your trivialization of genocide in Palestine and your disregard for the people of the Donbass region. When you hurl allegations of genocide as though they are meaningless, you make light of the most widely documented and understood ongoing genocide in the world. Standing up for Palestine and taking an accurate view against blatant undermining of their plight is not “pro-Kremlin.” I already said you could hang Putin, he’s a reactionary nationalist.
Saying “free Palestine” is hypocritical when you’ve said this zinger:
Just as you call Donetsk and Luhansk “traitors,” you also cape for settler-colonialism and give Israel a free pass. This is pure liberal Zionism, both-sidesing a genocide. This is further driven home by the fact that only 4 countries internationally recognize genocide committed by Russia:
While the vast majority of the world recognizes the genocide in Palestine:
None of this is “pro-Kremlin.” Above all, I stand with the people of Palestine, as well as those in the Donbass, in their struggles for self-determination, as is in line with Marxism-Leninism.
Irrelevant copy-pasta aside that in no way shape or form undermines or refutes a modicum of my points, why didn’t you just say yes?
Also weird one thinks invading and bombing Kyiv children is okay. As if UK could invade USA if suddenly parts of new England became sympathetic to England again hahahaha!
There’s no copypasta, and I refuted every one of your points. I also backed up every one of my points, referencing purely western, pro-Ukrainian sources. You dodged every single point of mine, and regularly accuse communists of being paid agitators, bots, or sockpuppets, rather than actually engage with the points at hand. All of this to defend Israel and the west.
I never justified any bombing of children either, this is just blood libel. The scale isn’t “totally okay” vs. “Genocide,” this is a cartoonishly black and white view of the world.
Well its not one question, its a bunch lumped together.
Sure
No. Israel is enacting an actual genocide against a defenceless population, the genocide has been going on since 1947 and has drastically accelerated these last few years.
While there are many accusations of genocide against Russia, its pretty clear (as has been thoroughly investigated by international observers - whom have been allowed to investigate, unlike in Israel) that, while there are civilian casualties, the goal of the russian military is to win a war against Ukraine, not exterminate a people.
Honestly, this one is tough. I feel like it was wrong, but I understand why Russia did it - the NATO posturing, the brinksmanship, the constant breaches of treaties… At a certain point one has to ask what else Russia could do. Now I know how you’re going to take this “OH SO YOU SUPPORT RUSSIA YOU CONDONE AHHH” but really if you actually read what I write, then that’s not what I am saying. I am saying, given russias position, russias interest in remaining a sovereign country, the threat against Russia (perceived or real), the situation Russia was in was one where the only outcome given to it was invasion. Its not like it did not try diplomacy first.
Wait, aren’t you the zionist who couldn’t say Israel is committing a genocide? A classic zionist tactic is cheapening the word by using it to describe any hostile action. Im sorry, but between Russia and Ukraine, Russia is not the one who has systematically pursued an ethnic minority, banned the language of that minority, bombed the fuck out of areas with that minority and all that stuff.
Since I don’t see how Russia is committing a genocide (because genocide isn’t just “when you are at war” if that were the case then the Native Americans committed genocide against colonists in the 17- and 1800’s. I hope we can both see how ridiculous that is.) They are giving support to Russia, so they are complicit. Id like to know what makes the invasion of Ukraine less legal than other invasions before I agree on the “illegal” part.
Everyone Who Disagrees With Me Is A Foreigner.
This refrain of yours is so odd to me, because I never see you invokenit with people you agree with, despite the fact there’s also massive pro-us-regime botfarms.