There has been outrage after a small town in eastern Germany banned the installation of new Holocaust memorial plaques that mark the last known residence or workplace of Jews and other victims of the genocide.

Crossposted from https://thebrainbin.org/m/germany@feddit.org/t/1945027

A small town in eastern Germany banned the installation of new Holocaust memorial plaques that mark the last known residence or workplace of Jews and other victims of the genocide.

The motion was proposed by the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) and the centre-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU)…

    • EmmiLime@lemmy.ml
      191·
      3 days ago

      Stalin killed trillions with his comically sized spoon by eating all the grain of Ukraine

        • davel@lemmy.mlEnglish
          17·
          3 days ago

          The 1932–33 famine was not a genocide by any stretch of the imagination, except in the imagination of the Banderite fascists, who coined the term holomodor in the 1980s to evoke comparison to the Holocaust. But they are not comparable, because 1) the famine wasn’t intentional, and 2) more people died per capita in other parts of the Soviet Union than in Ukraine, and in particular more per capita in Russia proper than in Ukraine. The notion started as fascist, anti-communist double genocide propaganda, and you’re still propagating it today, over a generation after the fall of the Soviet Union.

          • BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml
            5·
            2 days ago

            more people died per capita in other parts of the Soviet Union than in Ukraine,

            I remember seeing this sourced some times, but I haven’t been able to find a good one myself. Would you happen to have one?

            • davel@lemmy.mlEnglish
              4·
              2 days ago

              No, not offhand. You might check with Parenti’s, Losurdo’s, or Grover Furr’s works.

          • modem_down@thebrainbin.orgOP
            117·
            3 days ago

            The 1932–33 famine was not a genocide by any stretch of the imagination

            Given that most serious genocide scholars regard the Holodomor as a genocide, you’re simply wrong.

            double genocide

            The double genocide article you posted links to the Holomor denial article, which describes your behaviour:

            ‘Holodomor denial is easily distinguished from serious scholarship, and “generally consists of especially vitriolic anti-Western and anti-Ukrainian tirades,” often accompanied by accusations of foreign influence, Nazi sympathies, or ulterior motives.’

            Blocked. Genocide denial crosses the line.

            • davel@lemmy.mlEnglish
              18·
              3 days ago

              Yes, many “serious” scholars in the imperial core regard it as a genocide, but outside of that minority, scholars around the world do not.

              Welcome to Lemmy, your first exposure to voices outside of the capitalist/imperialist echo chamber that most of us had ever been exposed to.

        • EmmiLime@lemmy.ml
          141·
          3 days ago

          linking to a wikipedia article and calling Holodomor a genocide is fucking pathetic of you. It’s just double genocide theory which is a form of genocide trivialization and undermines the severity that genocide carries

    • BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml
      16·
      2 days ago

      Lmao this guy trusts wikipedia as an unbiased source on political questions.

      It states “as high as 148 million” and then uses This online article as a source - An article that , apart from being incredibly flawed, is discussing death by famine, which the Wikipedia then uses as its foundation for “mass killing”. The academic work in the article is questionable, to say the least, and it is odd to use a source discussing famine to support claims of “killings” - Especially without adressing that discrepancy.
      Following the same methodology the modern western governments are responsible for billions of deaths.

      We could go through every source and the general methodology and find issues all the way throughout (Like quoting Zbigniew Brzezinski lmao wtf, that would be like using Beria as a source on NATO warcrimes. So much for “unbiased” or “neutral”), but I won’t waste my time, because I know to people like you the idea of dismissing wikipedia is akin to heresy to a spaniard in the 1700’s.

      edit: I should also mention the “as low as 10-20 million” is equally fraught and disingenuous. If we are going to count something ridiculous like the claims of some random dumbass on the internets, then we ought to do the same for the low estimate - Which would be about 0 then.

      2x edit: Forgot to mention that you’re talking specifically about soviets, while referring to an article that’s just generally about “communist mass killings.” Seems like you don’t know what you’re talking about and you just search for any article to back you up when pressured, without actually understanding the content of the article. Typical, but still sad.

      One has to wonder on the methodology of the article, what constitutes a “communist” mass killing? It makes allusions to both the USSR and PRC, neither of which claimed or claims to be communist, but rather socialist. This is such a basic error that it is hard to take anything written seriously. If I gave you an article on US atrocities and the article referred to the US as “The Collected States of America” then you’d probably find it disreputable at best.
      If the authors of the article can’t even get such a basic thing right, then I have little faith in the quality of the rest of it.

      I didn’t want to waste my time reading the drivel closely, but I could see the other source of the 148 million claim included the Khmer Rouge - a regime installed and backed by the US. How does that fall under “communist”? By that same line of reasoning the US is responsible for every killing done under one of its puppet regimes. Any bourgeois dictatorship would make even The Shining Path look like lambs.

        • Sherad@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
          111·
          3 days ago

          Look mang you really have been kinda disingenuous and frankly incurious.

          You need to look into the methodology used in the black book of communism, the lengths they went to tack on as many zeroes as possible, the fact that they include German nazi soldier deaths from ww2 as part of the numbers alone - does that really not make you feel like… a little curious as to the angle? Its use as a propaganda piece? Can you be as critical of the millions of deaths attributed to capitalism? Imperialism? Do you levy such criticisms… ever?

          “their evil communist propaganda, our good and noble capitalist truth”

          I do hope you look into the origins of “whataboutism” like the other posters said, if you can stop your knees from jerking for but a moment. Speaking human to human here.

        • Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml
          72·
          3 days ago

          I think they’re funny when they only exist in the imaginations of people like you, lmfao.

          Right, so no sources.

          • modem_down@thebrainbin.orgOP
            214·
            3 days ago
            • You: Sources?
            • Me: [Points to article with dozens of reputable sources.]
            • You: Right, so no sources.

            Sheer denialism.

              • Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml
                7·
                3 days ago

                “Unborn Nazis” is literally what the black book of communism is calling victims of communism, you should do some more research before you remove comments, mod.

              • modem_down@thebrainbin.orgOP
                213·
                3 days ago

                Which source is reputable?

                Why should I list them all for you, when I’ve already linked to the article that does so? Here are just a few:

                • Bellamy, Alex J. (2012), “Massacres and Morality: Mass Killing in an Age of Civilian Immunity” (PDF), Human Rights Quarterly, 34 (4), The Johns Hopkins University Press: 927‒958, doi:10.1353/hrq.2012.0066, JSTOR 23352235, S2CID 86858244
                • Bradley, Mark Philip (2017), “Human Rights and Communism”, in Fürst, Juliane; Pons, Silvio; Selden, Mark (eds.), The Cambridge History of Communism: Volume 3, Endgames? Late Communism in Global Perspective, 1968 to the Present, Cambridge University Press, ISBN 978-1-108-50935-0.
                • Karlsson, Klas-Göran; Schoenhals, Michael (2008), Crimes against humanity under communist regimes – Research review, Forum for Living History, ISBN 978-91-977487-2-8.
                • Valentino, Benjamin (2005). Final Solutions: Mass Killing and Genocide in the Twentieth Century. Cornell University Press. ISBN 9780801472732.

                Calling unborn Nazis victims of the soviet union is laughable at best.

                Calling an unborn person a Nazi is about as offensive as it gets. Blocked.

                • Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml
                  10·
                  3 days ago

                  I dunno if you know this, but the black book of communism features unborn Nazi Germans as victims of communism, it’s fine that you’ve blocked me, I’m sure you’ll learn this along your journey, but the fact that you just copy paste Wikipedia sources and then run away is very funny, lmao.

                  • QuietCupcake [any, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                    4·
                    2 days ago

                    I want to preface this by saying I am in near complete agreement with you and appreciate your comments in this thread.  But the “unborn Nazi’s” thing is more than a little offputting, and I understand why whatever mod decided to remove your other comment containing that term did so.

                    Even if it is not how you intended it, phrasing it as “unborn Nazis” implies that an unborn person can be Nazi.  They can’t.  Nazism is something that a person is infected with only after they have the cognitive apparatus to absorb and host ideology.  Using the phrase as you did makes it sound like you think that the offspring of Nazis must also inherently be Nazis.  That would be a rather vile belief, which is why I don’t think you actually meant it that way, but nevertheless it is how that phrase comes across.  It wouldn’t be above the liberals or Nazis themselves to claim such a thing, but I really don’t think even they would do so in this case because it’s contrary to the kind of picture they’re trying to paint with all their lies in the Black Book.  They want people to think it was only smol bean innocents that were “victims” of communism and try to obscure the fact that it was literal Nazis targeted by the Soviets, and they want to obscure the fact that their numbers are made up of many potential aka unborn people.  So when you use that phrase, it does sound like you believe “any spawn of Nazis must also be Nazis” which ironically is a very Nazi kind of thing to believe.

                    Anyway, I understand what you were getting at over all, and I’m in agreement with it.  But I think pointing out your wording there is a fair nit to pick out of the rest of your otherwise good commentary.