• njm1314@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    You not posting this in context makes you super untrustworthy in my book.

    • betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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      1 day ago

      Dictatorship is by nature untrustworthy, so which one do you pick: trustworthiness or dictatorship?

      • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        By “trustworthiness” do you mean continuing to try to vote our way into policy which benefits the American people? Because that hasn’t worked in 40+ years.

        Yeah I’ll take a “dictatorship” like China if it means we get socialized Healthcare, 25,000 miles of high speed rail, affordable housing and nationalization of corporations who have received billions if not trillions in subsidies. American “democracy” certainly hasn’t delivered on any of that.

        • IncogCyberSpaceUser@piefed.social
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          16 hours ago

          Pretty sure there isn’t socialized healthcare.

          Apropos affordable housing, how is the real estate bubble going? Don’t a lot of people pay for mortgages on apartments that have never been built?

        • teft@piefed.social
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          21 hours ago

          Yeah I’ll take a “dictatorship” like China if it means we get socialized Healthcare, 25,000 miles of high speed rail, affordable housing and nationalization of corporations who have received billions if not trillions in subsidies. American “democracy” certainly hasn’t delivered on any of that.

          Ask the Uyghurs how that’s working out for them. Anyone who thinks a fascist dictatorship doesn’t eat whoever they want is lying to themselves. If you’re not a party man (and even if you are that isn’t a bulletproof vest) you’re not going to have a life worth living.

          I bet nazi germans were cool with living in the reich, too. Just look at all those jewish companies they were given! Who wouldn’t want that. /s

          • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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            8 hours ago

            People with far more credibility than the US and our lackeys have already investigated in person, if you don’t feel like listening to them you can and should visit in person and investigate for yourself

          • sveltecider@lemmy.ca
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            12 hours ago

            If you want to play this game, maybe you should google the highest prison population in the world and the racial nature of their for-profit prison labour system.

            • teft@piefed.social
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              11 hours ago

              Ah, whataboutism. The classic erudite answer to criticism.

              Blocked for being a ccp shill.

          • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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            20 hours ago

            Ask the Uyghurs how that’s working out for them.

            You’re going to have to come up with a counter benefit we don’t also have under U.S. “democracy”. Unless you think there is no comparison? I’d be happy to discuss that with you.

            • teft@piefed.social
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              20 hours ago

              Why would i engage with someone who believes china is more free than the US?

              • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                18 hours ago

                Why would i engage with someone who believes china is more free than the US?

                I never said that. I said China has socialized Healthcare, thousands of miles of high speed rail connecting hundreds of cities all with their own robust public transit systems, they have affordable cars, housing, food and education. I’m saying thr U.S. has none of that. How did U.S. “democracy” absolutely fail where a China “dictatorship” succeeded?

        • betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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          1 day ago

          Then move to China, because the chances of a dictatorship running your way are next to zero. Dictatorship means no accountability, so once it’s set up, they do as they please no matter what you say.

          • Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz
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            18 hours ago

            I’m in China right now, its weird how the government does more for the people than most western democracies if they’re totally unaccountable. Is it possible you don’t have any idea wtf you’re talking about?

            Here’s a place where you can go 250 miles in an hour and a half for 30 bucks. No idea who this is for if not the people.

            • teft@piefed.social
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              8 hours ago

              It’s for the party bosses. People on time means more economic production which means more global political clout.

              Let’s see the rural infrastructure and collapsing tofu dreg bridges. Bet they don’t look as good.

              • Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz
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                7 hours ago

                It’s for the party bosses. People on time means more economic production

                HSR is for long distances, nobody is commuting 250 miles when you can live in the city because rent is <300/mo. But you are correct in that party bosses interests are selfish; they’re graded by economic development, human health, veggie prices, etc, and at the end of each 5 year term can get promoted to a bigger area, demoted from being able to run anything, or literally thrown in prison depending on their performance.

                Let’s see the rural infrastructure and collapsing tofu dreg bridges

                The buildings in less economic areas aren’t as nice, but that’s true literally everywhere. As for collapsed bridges and other infrastructure, I’ve literally never seen that.

            • betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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              9 hours ago

              I’d like to answer but you used your free speech to disqualified yourself.

          • zbyte64@awful.systems
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            21 hours ago

            You actually think there’s no accountability in China? My guy, they hold their politicians to a much higher bar then we do.

          • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Then move to China

            If I spoke mandarin fluently and had a solid support network of friends and family i would. 🤷‍♂️

            Dictatorship means no accountability, so once it’s set up, they do as they please no matter what you say.

            Show me all this accountability here in the United States. A known pedophile is in office and the previous guy in office spent four years giving a huge number of his voters the finger.

            • betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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              1 day ago

              If it was a total dictatorship, he’d be there forever. Accountability is the elections. You have hope.

              • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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                8 hours ago

                A rotating cast of “elected” spokesmen for the ruling billionaires doesn’t result in accountability for anyone

                • betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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                  1 day ago

                  Tell you what, I’ll wait here until you find a question you actually can’t answer yourself.

                  • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                    1 day ago

                    I was making an assumption you couldn’t see your own bullshit but this is you acknowledging you’re fully aware of it.

                    Losing an election isn’t real accountability for being a pedophile and you know it. And you know as well as I do Trump will never see the inside of a prison cell.

                    Pathetic.

            • nexguy@lemmy.world
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              1 day ago

              You seem to like when the government heavily censors domestic media, the internet, and academic discourse, and actively suppresses political dissent, protests, or criticism of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Movement within China is regulated. The justice system in China has a 99% conviction rate…for whichever side supports the side of the state. Mass surveillance with no legal recourse. You wouldn’t even know if you had it good or not. Unless you are fine not knowing I suppose.

              • Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works
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                7 hours ago

                And yet they have fewer people in prison than the US with four times the population. All these horrible things about China and yet they incarcerate people at a quarter of the rate that the US does. So if China is a fascist police state what do you call a country that imprisons people at four times the rate of China?

                • nexguy@lemmy.world
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                  6 hours ago

                  No one said the US is doing anything perfectly. What about the incarceration rate in the Netherlands? Individual freedom is difficult and comes at a cost. Chinese citizend simply do not have all the freedoms others in the west have. They are not allowed to demand it wether they want it or not.

                  • Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works
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                    5 hours ago

                    Idk about netherlands but you’re trying to single out china versus the west and the largest western country is far less free than china. If you say European, sure, quite frankly I have no clue about Netherlands incarceration, I’ll take your word for it. But if you want to talk about “the west” you have to answer for how your theory applies to the single largest western country.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                1 day ago

                The west also heavily censors domestic media, the internet, academic discourse, and actively suppresses political dissent and protests, etc. The critical difference is that the west does this to protect capitalists against the working classes, while China does this to suppress capitalists and protect the socialist system. The class that controls the state uses it to oppress the others.

                • nexguy@lemmy.world
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                  1 day ago

                  Can you openly criticize the Chinese party in control? Can you protest without violent retribution?

                  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                    1 day ago

                    People criticize, institutions are censored. Protests also do happen infrequently. China is a pretty stable country overall because the system actually works.

              • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                1 day ago

                You’re responding to my comment where I said.

                Show me all this accountability here in the United States.

                You didn’t show me where all this accountability is. Was that an oversight on your part or are you acknowledging there isn’t any?

                • nexguy@lemmy.world
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                  1 day ago

                  Can you openly criticize the Chinese party in control? Can you protest without violent retribution?

                  You can do these things in the usa. Accountability.

                  China won’t let the full intent through. The US does. Accountability.

                  • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                    24 hours ago

                    You can do these things in the usa. Accountability.

                    You think a few no kings protests around the country means the pedophile Donald Trump has been held accountable for his crimes against humanity?

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            1 day ago

            From the recent Perceptions of Democracy survey:

            China is one of the more comprehensively democratic countries on the list, with some of the fewest glaring weaknesses.

                • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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                  1 day ago

                  (No idea what they’re trying to say tbh. Is that an edited image or… are they calling you out? Seriously unclear)

                  PODS is an opinion poll. The way you present it implies that it speaks in any way to the actual systems of government of the country in question, when that’s just straight not what it’s about:

                  […] At the same time, more respondents said their country was moving in the wrong direction. The report finds that pessimism is especially pronounced in democracies. France, Germany, Lebanon, Puerto Rico and Nigeria were among the countries where responses on national direction were most negative. China recorded the most positive responses, followed by El Salvador, Kuwait, Algeria and Belarus.

                  What the infographic you’ve posted actually shows is that Chinese citizens are among the most satisfied with their government, which is for sure something, but is decidedly not the same thing as:

                  China is one of the more comprehensively democratic countries on the list, with some of the fewest glaring weaknesses.

                  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                    1 day ago

                    Yes, of course it’s a survey of how people feel about their systems. Most western “democracy indexes” just define democracy loosely around whatever the Nordics are doing, and as such countries with very different democratic systems like China score very low. This shows that that’s not really accurate, the people of China like the system and believe it delivers well for what it does.

                • jwt@programming.dev
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                  1 day ago

                  Thanks for the link, my point was that posting random pictures without context/methodology/sources is not very helpful.

                  So the questionnaire asks people how positive/negative they perceive the categories in their own country, I’m not really sure that methodology works very well for oppressive countries.

                  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                    1 day ago

                    You can look into their methodology. While it is an imperfect method, it does track pretty well when comparing countries to each other, as well as seeing which countries have more glaring weaknesses than others. It’s already widely reported that over 90% of people support the government in China, so this tracks pretty well.

                • SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml
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                  22 hours ago

                  He definitely is elected, just not directly. The Chinese President is elected by The National People’s Congress. The Presidium, which is the body that presides over the NPC when the full body Is not in session, nominates one or more candidates, and then the whole NPC deliberates and votes

      • deathmetaldawgy@lemmy.ml
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        1 day ago

        I could just as easily say “president is untrustworthy by nature” or “king”, “prime minister”, “dictator”, “state”, “soldier”, “police”, ”judge” etc. Dictatorship doesn’t automatically equal “authoritarian tankie evil communism everyone starves”

        Dictatorship by definition means the person or party that dictates. A judge is not authoritarian for providing someone a fair trial regardless of how harsh or fair they are, but they are still dictating a system or an action. So when you hear “dictatorship of the proletariat”, it literally means you and everyone else controls the law. It doesn’t mean you get to decide everything it means that democracy actually involves every single person that participates instead of being “dictated” by money.

        Every country expresses authority in some way, wether it’s USA something like Bay of Pigs, UK with their actions in India and Africa, USSR defeating Nazi armies and liberating concentration camps sometimes WITH the us and British. Technically Warsaw ghetto uprising was “authoritarian” and it was a good thing that they expressed authority on the Nazi regime.

        Just trying to provide some clarity, a lot of people in the US truly have no idea how evil our government is and what they do overseas to help maintain your lifestyle, and it barely does a good job of maintaining our lifestyle. If anything socialist policies are always provably better at building society, and even the bare minimum in the US are people like Mamdani or Walz that prove even if you enact quasi-leftist policies like healthcare you’re an evil communist who likes dictatorship. You’re falling for it but you don’t have to, if you believe in people like AOC and other “progressive” dems like Ilhan Omar in theory you should be unlearning these things you’ve been taught by the right wing American media.

        • betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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          1 day ago

          Dictatorship means there is no accountability. They do as they please no matter what you say. They have zero reason to be trustworthy.

          • nexguy@lemmy.world
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            23 hours ago

            You are fighting against a tide of trolls or sheep. There is nothing you can do but block these people that try to rationalize away dictators.

                • deathmetaldawgy@lemmy.ml
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                  7 hours ago

                  Yes. Your freedom to educate yourself against all this bullshit is the freedom you have. It’s a shame it goes to waste but, like I said before, it’s never too late. Read Parenti

                • Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz
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                  18 hours ago

                  I can’t believe the communists hate freedom so much so sad. I guess sone people just aren’t born with the courage to be free.

                  • nexguy@lemmy.world
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                    10 hours ago

                    We probably couldn’t have this conversation if you lived in China and you are ok with that. I mean you could sneak around and get away with it probably. FREEDOM!