All men do have all encompassing views on women, they’re socialised to believe them, most of them serve capitalism. Shutting your eyes to their existence, doesn’t make them not there. It feels like you are trying to “not all men”. If people are judged by their actions, do the 62 million men who logged onto a rape your wife website, to enjoy the uploads, just this week gone, get judged for their behaviours, what about the consistent amount of rapes actually committed, predominantly by men, the amount of women killed a year. The canary in the coal mine, died years ago. This is a systemic and cultural issue. Men are cultured to hate women, look down on women. They speak nicely to women they find attractive and treat those they don’t without even basic respect. Because they’re socialised to see women as an adornment put on this earth for them, an object. When you smooth over and try and imply it’s bigotry to point out systemic oppression, it’s right in there, with the oppressors, enabling the system. Patriarchy doesn’t just suck, it kills, hundreds if not thousands a year. It’s not just an annoyance.
There is a difference between believing “society teaches men X” or “society enables men to do Y” and believing “all men are X” or “all men do Y”
This isn’t a “not all men” comment, this is a genuine discussion about how our victimhood causes us to go beyond justice and equality and into retaliatory attacks.
There is a big difference between a small comment like “all men suck” (which I still think is unhelpful and hurtful) and the deep and thought out belief that the OOP posted. To say “not all men” to the small comment is to miss the point and just be defensive, but the OOP is something else that deserves discussion, not to mention the fact that the title of this post is asking for opinions.
Just to add my pov for context:
I am AMAB but I am not a man, but society identifies me as one. I have been hurt bu people generalizing about non-cis, I have been hurt by peolle generalizing about non-straight, I have been hurt by people generalizing about women, and I have been hurt by people generalizing about men. The one that stands out the most for me is the men one, not because of any special attachment or because it is worse (it is obviously not), but because within the groups that are understanding and accepting of who I am (call it liberal, woke, progressive, idc) the generalization of men was always so casual and in the open. It reminded me of the other side, the people that I used to hate because they would openly joke about “the gays” and black people, and especially women. Everytime I heard a sexist remark I would cringe and wonder how they can be so casual about being so horribly disrespectful and aggressive towards literally half of the world? And now days I don’t hang around these kinds of people, but I find myself in a very similar situation because it seems that here (while they are 10000% better) they feel comfortable to openly disrespect and be aggressive towards the other half of the world…
I will say, this is just a comment so there is a lot of nuance here, but while I draw similarities between both sides, I whole heartedly believe and feel that one side was actually horrible and the other is more of understandably flawed situation.
All men do have all encompassing views on women, they’re socialised to believe them, most of them serve capitalism. Shutting your eyes to their existence, doesn’t make them not there. It feels like you are trying to “not all men”. If people are judged by their actions, do the 62 million men who logged onto a rape your wife website, to enjoy the uploads, just this week gone, get judged for their behaviours, what about the consistent amount of rapes actually committed, predominantly by men, the amount of women killed a year. The canary in the coal mine, died years ago. This is a systemic and cultural issue. Men are cultured to hate women, look down on women. They speak nicely to women they find attractive and treat those they don’t without even basic respect. Because they’re socialised to see women as an adornment put on this earth for them, an object. When you smooth over and try and imply it’s bigotry to point out systemic oppression, it’s right in there, with the oppressors, enabling the system. Patriarchy doesn’t just suck, it kills, hundreds if not thousands a year. It’s not just an annoyance.
There is a difference between believing “society teaches men X” or “society enables men to do Y” and believing “all men are X” or “all men do Y”
This isn’t a “not all men” comment, this is a genuine discussion about how our victimhood causes us to go beyond justice and equality and into retaliatory attacks.
There is a big difference between a small comment like “all men suck” (which I still think is unhelpful and hurtful) and the deep and thought out belief that the OOP posted. To say “not all men” to the small comment is to miss the point and just be defensive, but the OOP is something else that deserves discussion, not to mention the fact that the title of this post is asking for opinions.
Just to add my pov for context:
I am AMAB but I am not a man, but society identifies me as one. I have been hurt bu people generalizing about non-cis, I have been hurt by peolle generalizing about non-straight, I have been hurt by people generalizing about women, and I have been hurt by people generalizing about men. The one that stands out the most for me is the men one, not because of any special attachment or because it is worse (it is obviously not), but because within the groups that are understanding and accepting of who I am (call it liberal, woke, progressive, idc) the generalization of men was always so casual and in the open. It reminded me of the other side, the people that I used to hate because they would openly joke about “the gays” and black people, and especially women. Everytime I heard a sexist remark I would cringe and wonder how they can be so casual about being so horribly disrespectful and aggressive towards literally half of the world? And now days I don’t hang around these kinds of people, but I find myself in a very similar situation because it seems that here (while they are 10000% better) they feel comfortable to openly disrespect and be aggressive towards the other half of the world…
I will say, this is just a comment so there is a lot of nuance here, but while I draw similarities between both sides, I whole heartedly believe and feel that one side was actually horrible and the other is more of understandably flawed situation.
Bullshit