Reminder that we live in a multiparty parliamentary system that often produces minority governments. A Liberal minority with a strong NDP is not the same thing as a Liberal majority with a weak NDP.
Only we don’t live in the US. We have a multiparty parliamentary system that can operate under minority governments. So the American style blackmail doesn’t have the same totality to it.
Yeah, I don’t know. Would a Conservative minority get away with what Carney is pulling? At least Liberal voters would be resisting the exact same policies we are seeing from Carney if they were being done by Poilievre. And Poilievre would never have managed to bribe his way to a majority the way Carney did. Don’t take this comment as me arguing that a Poilievre government would definitely be better, however. Just…I think the assumption that we chose the lesser evil should at least be examined.
*Before Trump was elected. I think a Trudeau led Liberal party would have had a much weaker showing, but not as weak as the polling referenced here would suggest. The Conservative falloff was mostly a result of the fallout from the new (at the time) Trump administration and the common understanding that the Conservative party is the pro-US party. The Liberals were able to seize the mantle of Canadian nationalism in the face of that disaster. In another world where Trump was not president but Carney still takes over the Liberals, I don’t think we see nearly the same swing. In a world where Trump is president but the Liberals stick with Trudeau, I think the most likely outcome would have been either a weak Con minority or a very weak Liberal minority.
I don’t think Trudeau could have whipped up the level of support that Carney did, he lost the “incumbent advantage” long before Trump part dookie. Liberal minority would have been likely out of reach, it would have been a decision between CPC minority or majority. Trudeau was deeply disliked by the time he stepped down, and the polls were continuing to get worse for Trudeau, and as a knock-on, LPC in general.
Carney was able to take advantage of the “new guy effect”, and some easy policy changes to attract fence-sitters. I won’t disagree that PP said/did some significant foot-gunning, but I don’t think that would have been enough to get the LPC out of the Trudeau slump.
I don’t think Trudeau could have whipped up the level of support that Carney did,
Why not? We were being directly attacked economically and having our sovereignty threatened. A dog could have whipped up plenty of support in that context as long as it was painting itself as a nationalist dog. You are way, way overestimating the effect Carney had on the election and vastly underestimating the effect Trump had, in my opinion.
You say that like liberal voters resisting his policies would have any impact at all on the outcome of what Poilievre would actually do. Did you see Carney wringing his hands when he gets called out by the NDP when he was still in the minority? Absolutely a Conservative government would have walked away with as much as they could get away with, and the red-tories in the liberal party would be pearl-clutching their way to a “yes” vote “very, very concerned” as they handed him the keys to the kingdom. We know this playbook. We’ve seen it a thousand times, both here in Canada and elsewhere.
He was (and still is) the lesser of two evils.
American has provided the prime example of getting that wrong. Also Trump has been amazing for the wealthy, can only imagine what he gives them next.
Love the guy who shot me in the stomach because he didn’t shoot me in the face!
I’d have loved to vote NDP but Singh was weak, not my fault. Avi is running away from center, finally ending the slide Layton started.
They’re both pointing a gun at you, one is going to shoot you even if you vote for the 3rd, unarmed guy
Reminder that we live in a multiparty parliamentary system that often produces minority governments. A Liberal minority with a strong NDP is not the same thing as a Liberal majority with a weak NDP.
No, they’re both going to shoot me, if ‘shooting me’ here means furthering conservative policy.
Only we don’t live in the US. We have a multiparty parliamentary system that can operate under minority governments. So the American style blackmail doesn’t have the same totality to it.
Yeah, I don’t know. Would a Conservative minority get away with what Carney is pulling? At least Liberal voters would be resisting the exact same policies we are seeing from Carney if they were being done by Poilievre. And Poilievre would never have managed to bribe his way to a majority the way Carney did. Don’t take this comment as me arguing that a Poilievre government would definitely be better, however. Just…I think the assumption that we chose the lesser evil should at least be examined.
Cons were predicted to have a landslide majority before Trudeau stepped down and Carney took over
*Before Trump was elected. I think a Trudeau led Liberal party would have had a much weaker showing, but not as weak as the polling referenced here would suggest. The Conservative falloff was mostly a result of the fallout from the new (at the time) Trump administration and the common understanding that the Conservative party is the pro-US party. The Liberals were able to seize the mantle of Canadian nationalism in the face of that disaster. In another world where Trump was not president but Carney still takes over the Liberals, I don’t think we see nearly the same swing. In a world where Trump is president but the Liberals stick with Trudeau, I think the most likely outcome would have been either a weak Con minority or a very weak Liberal minority.
I don’t think Trudeau could have whipped up the level of support that Carney did, he lost the “incumbent advantage” long before Trump part dookie. Liberal minority would have been likely out of reach, it would have been a decision between CPC minority or majority. Trudeau was deeply disliked by the time he stepped down, and the polls were continuing to get worse for Trudeau, and as a knock-on, LPC in general.
Carney was able to take advantage of the “new guy effect”, and some easy policy changes to attract fence-sitters. I won’t disagree that PP said/did some significant foot-gunning, but I don’t think that would have been enough to get the LPC out of the Trudeau slump.
Why not? We were being directly attacked economically and having our sovereignty threatened. A dog could have whipped up plenty of support in that context as long as it was painting itself as a nationalist dog. You are way, way overestimating the effect Carney had on the election and vastly underestimating the effect Trump had, in my opinion.
You say that like liberal voters resisting his policies would have any impact at all on the outcome of what Poilievre would actually do. Did you see Carney wringing his hands when he gets called out by the NDP when he was still in the minority? Absolutely a Conservative government would have walked away with as much as they could get away with, and the red-tories in the liberal party would be pearl-clutching their way to a “yes” vote “very, very concerned” as they handed him the keys to the kingdom. We know this playbook. We’ve seen it a thousand times, both here in Canada and elsewhere.