Iranian officials urged young people to form human chains to protect power plants, as U.S. President Donald Trump warned that a “whole civilization will die tonight” if Tehran does not meet his latest deadline.
I’m not saying this is unlikely, I just think he’s blood drunk enough to do it. Our understanding of the effects of dozens of modern nuclear bombs on an urban center is theoretical, thankfully, but even with Iran’s geography, it’s going to cause huge problems with oil production, causing downstream food distribution issues etc.
I guess it depends on your definition of society- they wouldn’t have a functioning government for a while, but the people surviving would still be Iranian and depending on whether they’re Kurdish, Persian, or other, might still have loyalty to the idea of an Iranian state.
I don’t think you can do enough damage to the people that there’s no Iranian (or Persian) state in 100 years without damaging the rest of the world irreparably. It’s not 100% clear what the death of a civilization entails, but it feels closer to wiping out the culture to me than destroying the big cities.
I guess it depends on your definition of society- they wouldn’t have a functioning government for a while, but the people surviving would still be Iranian and depending on whether they’re Kurdish, Persian, or other, might still have loyalty to the idea of an Iranian state.
Okay this one is fun and much more my area of expertise. You’re getting at the core because it is something that is very difficult to determine. The Roman Empire is a great example, we can talk about just the west for now. Roman Britain was abandoned by the Roman’s, and yet archaeological evidence shows that they still tried to live like Romans or at least the elites did. Historical records show a clear point at which the Roman Empire left, but when did the elites and people stop considering themselves Roman? They did eventually stop, and that was due to being cut-off from the empire.
Then you can look at the Bronze age collapse where whole civilizations just ceased to exist. Certainly the people persisted, but few states survived in tact. People still lived their but their civilizations ceased. They spoke the same languages still, but many cities across the Mediterranean region stop inhabited. By the time written record returned new states had formed and material culture changed. We know logically the people themselves existed in continuity but their societies ceased.
Maybe this is getting to into the weeds and not appropriate here, but this is my field and I’ve dedicated a lot of time to it. So the short answer is it is nearly impossible to draw a line, but societies do collapse even when the people persist
No, it is an interesting question. I suspect that with such an old culture, it would probably stick around longer than the Roman one did in Britain. Maybe it would be more like the Roman culture in Germany or maybe it would be entirely unique.
Of course, to your point that it’s not a hard and fast line, I’ve seen the argument that the Roman Empire still exists in Turkey or Russia. I don’t agree, but I can see what they’re getting at.
I’m not saying this is unlikely, I just think he’s blood drunk enough to do it. Our understanding of the effects of dozens of modern nuclear bombs on an urban center is theoretical, thankfully, but even with Iran’s geography, it’s going to cause huge problems with oil production, causing downstream food distribution issues etc.
I guess it depends on your definition of society- they wouldn’t have a functioning government for a while, but the people surviving would still be Iranian and depending on whether they’re Kurdish, Persian, or other, might still have loyalty to the idea of an Iranian state.
I don’t think you can do enough damage to the people that there’s no Iranian (or Persian) state in 100 years without damaging the rest of the world irreparably. It’s not 100% clear what the death of a civilization entails, but it feels closer to wiping out the culture to me than destroying the big cities.
Okay this one is fun and much more my area of expertise. You’re getting at the core because it is something that is very difficult to determine. The Roman Empire is a great example, we can talk about just the west for now. Roman Britain was abandoned by the Roman’s, and yet archaeological evidence shows that they still tried to live like Romans or at least the elites did. Historical records show a clear point at which the Roman Empire left, but when did the elites and people stop considering themselves Roman? They did eventually stop, and that was due to being cut-off from the empire.
Then you can look at the Bronze age collapse where whole civilizations just ceased to exist. Certainly the people persisted, but few states survived in tact. People still lived their but their civilizations ceased. They spoke the same languages still, but many cities across the Mediterranean region stop inhabited. By the time written record returned new states had formed and material culture changed. We know logically the people themselves existed in continuity but their societies ceased.
Maybe this is getting to into the weeds and not appropriate here, but this is my field and I’ve dedicated a lot of time to it. So the short answer is it is nearly impossible to draw a line, but societies do collapse even when the people persist
No, it is an interesting question. I suspect that with such an old culture, it would probably stick around longer than the Roman one did in Britain. Maybe it would be more like the Roman culture in Germany or maybe it would be entirely unique.
Of course, to your point that it’s not a hard and fast line, I’ve seen the argument that the Roman Empire still exists in Turkey or Russia. I don’t agree, but I can see what they’re getting at.