Ok, we’re getting somewhere.

Personally, I would consider the conditions of battery chickens torture, made worse because of the profit maximising motive.

If you don’t agree with that then this explains why we have different moral intuitions.

I would still say my points stand because I emphasise internal moral consistency, not some appeal to an objective value system.

Yeah I get it. Not everyone is as ideological (not a putdown). I just left all those groups. They know how to reach me when they want to chat.

Mmm that was a good one. I think I’ll do it again. Mmm, blinking

I feel like you’re getting lost in the world of abstracts. I’m talking subjective, fallible, imperfect, morality—not objective ethics.

There is a concrete instance of a chicken that is being tortured for profit currently. If you’re against that, it’s morally self-consistent to avoid contributing to the system which is torturing the chicken.

Is it not?

Having played several systems I have no idea why anyone chooses d&d other than it seems like the default.

I’m in a d&d group and every time they’re flipping through the books I want to shake them and show them literally anything else. Even just vibe up your own system on the spot.

I think I might actually hate Discord more then both, so my hope is that this just makes them leave my communities alone somehow

Yeah I hated it from the word go. It was always the poorest option. Everything about its UX makes me cringe. Even fucking slack by now Salesforce is somehow better.

Every moment I deigned to use Discord I felt like there was friction between me and the people on the other end of the application. Like typing while wearing gloves and getting interrupted every time I wanted to do anything.

How the fuck is anyone still using Discord.

Funny, I feel like it’s the opposite. I appreciate the use of a local LLM over renting GPU time, but unless you trained the model yourself I’m still not in love with the source.

Also it’s just made my entire field unstable and less fun.

Friend, you’re clearly getting tilted. Every single reply has a highschool tier dig tagged on for no reason.

You know you can have actual discussions with people in these threads, right?

Lol. “Look at it go on my personal project, wow I could never! I am a title worm! Go Sam Altman!” It really does work. What a great term haha

Probably the nicest way to put it, all things considered

Yes and that holds true for all actions—we can never know how our behavior will “sum out” in the future, especially the far far future.

We still make moral decisions based on the imperfect information we have. In fact we have to, because merely existing in the status quo is a moral decision. Even choosing to remove ourselves from existence is a moral decision. On a long enough horizon we can’t tell how anything will play out.

So while can’t know what any of our decisions or lack of decisions will amount to in the future, we still try, and update our assumptions as time goes on.

But there’s no point in arguing whether reducing suffering is moral or not if you’re not even going to grant that attempting to reduce suffering is a worthy goal.

Welcome aboard

Meaning sure, but enjoyment is still right there. Maybe a little absurdity too, for a taste of the numinous.

Anyone else get tired of telling their heart to beat, diaphragm to move, and eyes to moisturize? Its God damn exhausting is what it is

Yeah even anecdotally everyone I’ve ever got to know really well turned out to be just as fucked up as everyone else. But like some people do this kind of chemistry with their fucked-upedness where they hijack it to the benefit of themselves or others.

Pardon my subjectiveposting

I think I realised this the first time I heard someone talk about ego death or derealization as a result of a drug trip and I was like oh so like that feeling in between two rooms when you die and everything stops just before the new room’s program loads another you up?

Present!

(Please I am begging you Americans to keep up the pressure! Keep going for woke!)

It sure does, it’s a moral statement. But let me speak them then:

• pain is unpleasant and should be avoided as much as practicable

• If you care about reducing the pain in others then you should act accordingly

• the vegan perspective is to reduce our exploitation of animals as much as practicable

• the pain and suffering of animals at the hands of humans matters

• we should try to limit the unnecessary pain we cause

• there are actions humans can take to lower the amount of pain and suffering in the world

• a world with less pain and suffering is preferable to one with more

But seriously, what would you do with the information that plants felt suffering on the level of animals and humans? Would you do nothing with this shocking new evidence?