Ok, I kinda see where you’re coming from. However, I think there’s still a difference. The system is what gives “legitimacy” (for lack of a better word) to a social construct. So a god is not real to people without the religion, just as money as a concept wouldn’t be real to people living outside of capitalism. The problem for this analogy is that outside of a few uncontacted tribes, capitalism is inescapable for virtually everyone on earth. Even “communist” countries rely on the global capitalist market to some extent at this point in history. So money is more real to more people if that makes sense.
Elohim once promised the Holy Land to the Hebrews. The Zionists in Israel believe they have a divine blessing to commit their genocide and settle Palestine. I have a theological rebuttal to that mindset, but because I am only using Zionists as an example, I will not use it today.
You say we can’t escape capitalism. I agree. I assert that Palestinians cannot escape Judaism, regardless of their own beliefs. Thus, religion can be very much like capitalism, and gods can be inescapable even to those who do not believe.
That is not a valid counterexample. I repeat, no one here is arguing that religions or political philosophies aren’t real or that they don’t have tangible effects. The fact that the religion exists does not make the fictional characters in it real to those outside the religion.
If that’s so, then why does capitalism make money real to you? I don’t believe money is real. Though I still do often believe in it without believing it’s real, just for convenience’s sake.
Because I am forced to operate within capitalism. I work to earn money, and I exchange it for goods and services daily. I don’t like capitalism, to be clear, but that doesn’t mean I don’t live in it.
Now you’re the one not being consistent, what do you mean by “believing in it without believing it’s real”?
And likewise, the Palestinians are forced to operate under the tyranny of a Jewish theocratic regime. They are forced to operate within Judaism. So Elohim is a present force in their lives, and they don’t get much choice in the matter. Just like money is.
what do You mean by “believing in it without believing it’s real”?
Reality is “that which when you stoop believing in it, goes away”. Reality is objective. I believe in money, but I don’t believe in it objectively. I believe money exists subjectively. Just like love, justice, gender, national borders, and spacetime.
Again, not a valid example. Palestinians do not practice or believe in Judaism, even if they are forced to live with the actions of some of its adherents. The religion is real to them, not the god.
I’m not saying they practice it or believe in it, I’m saying they’re forced to live within it. There’s a difference. Elohim is a present force in their lives.
But I don’t think what I just said is going to persuade you. I think you’re concerned with proximity. Money touches us every day, we have to actively use it. Elohim is a distant force in Palestine, and touches Palestinians from afar. That’s what you think makes the difference, isn’t it?
No. Money can be demonstrated to exist in a capitalist society. Elohim cannot be demonstrated to exist, period. That’s what makes it not real. Thus, the only people who believe gods exist are religious people, whereas even communists believe money exists as a real social construct. That is all.
Ok, I kinda see where you’re coming from. However, I think there’s still a difference. The system is what gives “legitimacy” (for lack of a better word) to a social construct. So a god is not real to people without the religion, just as money as a concept wouldn’t be real to people living outside of capitalism. The problem for this analogy is that outside of a few uncontacted tribes, capitalism is inescapable for virtually everyone on earth. Even “communist” countries rely on the global capitalist market to some extent at this point in history. So money is more real to more people if that makes sense.
Elohim once promised the Holy Land to the Hebrews. The Zionists in Israel believe they have a divine blessing to commit their genocide and settle Palestine. I have a theological rebuttal to that mindset, but because I am only using Zionists as an example, I will not use it today.
You say we can’t escape capitalism. I agree. I assert that Palestinians cannot escape Judaism, regardless of their own beliefs. Thus, religion can be very much like capitalism, and gods can be inescapable even to those who do not believe.
That is not a valid counterexample. I repeat, no one here is arguing that religions or political philosophies aren’t real or that they don’t have tangible effects. The fact that the religion exists does not make the fictional characters in it real to those outside the religion.
If that’s so, then why does capitalism make money real to you? I don’t believe money is real. Though I still do often believe in it without believing it’s real, just for convenience’s sake.
Because I am forced to operate within capitalism. I work to earn money, and I exchange it for goods and services daily. I don’t like capitalism, to be clear, but that doesn’t mean I don’t live in it.
Now you’re the one not being consistent, what do you mean by “believing in it without believing it’s real”?
And likewise, the Palestinians are forced to operate under the tyranny of a Jewish theocratic regime. They are forced to operate within Judaism. So Elohim is a present force in their lives, and they don’t get much choice in the matter. Just like money is.
Reality is “that which when you stoop believing in it, goes away”. Reality is objective. I believe in money, but I don’t believe in it objectively. I believe money exists subjectively. Just like love, justice, gender, national borders, and spacetime.
Again, not a valid example. Palestinians do not practice or believe in Judaism, even if they are forced to live with the actions of some of its adherents. The religion is real to them, not the god.
I’m not saying they practice it or believe in it, I’m saying they’re forced to live within it. There’s a difference. Elohim is a present force in their lives.
But I don’t think what I just said is going to persuade you. I think you’re concerned with proximity. Money touches us every day, we have to actively use it. Elohim is a distant force in Palestine, and touches Palestinians from afar. That’s what you think makes the difference, isn’t it?
No. Money can be demonstrated to exist in a capitalist society. Elohim cannot be demonstrated to exist, period. That’s what makes it not real. Thus, the only people who believe gods exist are religious people, whereas even communists believe money exists as a real social construct. That is all.