• Saapas@piefed.zip
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    6 days ago

    I mean with Trump now, surely Obama comparatively seems great? Not a saint but isn’t it easy to see why those relatives would miss him?

    • lumpenproletariat@quokk.auOPM
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      6 days ago

      Obama bombed children, that will never seem great in any way, shape, or form.

      If someone worse than Trump comes along, are you happy to say “I miss Trump?”.

      Have a line and hold it.

      • monkeyslikebananas2@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        I mean that’s the reason we have the words: “better” and “worse.”

        If something is “better than”, then yes, I believe it is better.

        Y’all act like anyone said Obama was a saint. Hell, some saints have been worse than Obama.

        • lumpenproletariat@quokk.auOPM
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          6 days ago

          It’s why the overton window keeps shifting, because the level of evil you accept keeps looking better in comparison to worse.

          • PugJesus@piefed.social
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            6 days ago

            It’s why the overton window keeps shifting, because the level of evil you accept keeps looking better in comparison to worse.

            … would you like to outline the past ~70 years of the Overton window shifting to allow more evil instead of less? Or were we voting for saints back in the 50s?

            • slowcakes@programming.dev
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              5 days ago

              Why does it have to be 70 years? Can we do 10 20 30? Then I don’t believe the overtone window is that obvious 30-40 years ago you were considered bad if you bought a right wing newspaper, people would stop talking to you. (Well at least where I am from)

              Coincidentally that is the period where workers had the most rights, which has slowly become worse with time in every western country.

              At that time they thought right wing people where against them having rights and quiet evil, they had been thought by their parents, who worked hard for those rights. Our generation has not learned the importance and given more room for the right wing to control our media, which then controls the narrative. Why is there so many articles about trump or Elon musk, I mean we have two idiots who cares, do we have to know that trump misspelled coffee?

              • PugJesus@piefed.social
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                5 days ago

                Why does it have to be 70 years? Can we do 10 20 30? Then I don’t believe the overtone window is that obvious 30-40 years ago you were considered bad if you bought a right wing newspaper, people would stop talking to you. (Well at least where I am from)

                Yeah, sure, let’s do 10, 20, 30.

                30 years ago Black folk were being called ‘superpredators’ and blamed for a ‘crime wave’, the push to dismantle the meager welfare state in the USA was wildly popular, immigration law was reformed to militarize the border and deportation, being gay was illegal in about half of US states… do I need to go on?

                • slowcakes@programming.dev
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                  2 days ago

                  You are making an argument against your own point of lesser evils, we are debating if the overtone window has shifted. Which is obvious that it has. As I stated before media is owned by the wealthy even state owned media is controlled by the wealthy, they set the narrative, why do you think that they write and talk about super predators, so that becomes the agenda. And not that coperate america is fucking over the working class, and the politicians aren’t doing jack shit about it.

                  • PugJesus@piefed.social
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                    2 days ago

                    You are making an argument against your own point of lesser evils,

                    What.

                    You need to revisit politics in the 90s. Shit was mainstream that would make your milk curdle in the fridge.

                    As I stated before media is owned by the wealthy even state owned media is controlled by the wealthy, they set the narrative,

                    … who do you think controlled the media in the West before 1990?

                    why do you think that they write and talk about super predators, so that becomes the agenda.

                    The absurd ‘superpredator’ line died with the lingering effects of the 1980s crime wave. I don’t know where you’re hearing it today.

                    And not that coperate america is fucking over the working class, and the politicians aren’t doing jack shit about it.

                    Sure, but that’s not fucking new.

      • Saapas@piefed.zip
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        6 days ago

        I get your point and I don’t disagree, but surely you get your relatives too?

        • Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net
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          6 days ago

          Nope. I don’t really get that shortsighted mentality of missing the lesser evil.

          Evil is evil regardless and it should never be missed just because you weren’t a victim of their evil deeds. That’s how you abandon your solidarity

            • Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net
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              3 days ago

              Nothing.

              Better is contextual. The lesser is technically better, sure, but it still falls below the minimum standards.

              Being stabbed is “better” than being shot but regardless of which, you’re still fucking injured.

              • Saapas@piefed.zip
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                3 days ago

                But if you understand “better” then shouldn’t that help in understanding how people miss better times?

                • Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net
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                  3 days ago

                  Sure but it also makes me understand that people lack solidarity if they miss a time when their comfort came at the expense of the oppressed simply because they weren’t the one personally being oppressed.

                  Just because life was more comfortable before doesn’t mean I miss it, because I have solidarity with those who were oppressed for that comfort to have been possible. I would never want those times to return just because I personally benefit from it, thus I do not miss those times.

                  I also do not miss those times because I understand that those times are what allowed the ones we are currently living in to manifest. The systems, institutions, and cultural norms of those times are what led to today.

                  I do not miss those times. I yearn for times where those things did not come at the expense of others while enabling evil to continue to consolidate power and disenfranchise my brothers and sisters of the working class.

          • PugJesus@piefed.social
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            6 days ago

            Nope. I don’t really get that shortsighted mentality of missing the lesser evil.

            “I don’t understand why someone might miss when things were less bad!”

            Tracks.

            • Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net
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              6 days ago

              Bad is bad. Just because you weren’t personally affected by the bad doesn’t make it less bad, just exposes how little solidarity with the oppressed you actually have.

              • Saapas@piefed.zip
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                4 days ago

                Bad is bad

                There’s always degrees to it. I dunno why so many online forget about this

                • Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net
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                  3 days ago

                  Because there are people who don’t have a shortsighted, reactionary mentality.

                  The degrees of how bad is entirely contextual. And part of the context of seeing the lesser evil as “better” involves limiting the scope to a false dichotomy.

                  Being stabbed is better than being shot, but regardless of which option you’re still fucking being injured.

                  • Saapas@piefed.zip
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                    3 days ago

                    Not being able to see degrees to things seems more like a handicap than anything good tbh.