I can fairly confidently say he didn’t exist because half of his back story is stolen from older stories still. At best there was a guy (not named jesus, that is for sure) who started a cult and got some followers and got a lot of the older lore mixed in. Either he did this himself, or (more probably) writers later mixed in things to create “JFC”
If a historical person existed named “Jesus” who was also a vocal proponent of Jewish reform, existed that does not make the “Jesus” in the bible a real person. These two people would be mutually exclusive.
Real people can’t preform magic. Real people are not born to virgins. Real people cannot be resurrected from the dead after days. There is no person who ever existed who could walk on water and turn water to wine. That “Jesus” is fiction through and through.
The Bible is a story book. A book of fables. At best it’s historical fiction.
Christian Jesus is a fantasy.
So what you’re saying is if Bob tells me (your name) has a flying tiger, and I later find out you don’t have a flying tiger… you no longer exists?
Hate religion all you want but don’t shit on history. In all likelihood there was a Jesus the story is based off of. Who was probably real. We have lots of non religious documents that mention him. The Quran mentions him. He probably existed as a person.
Like you exist as a person even though you don’t have a flying tiger.
Militant atheists are just as problematic as religious zealots.
Both annoying, pushy, and insisting you’re way is the only way. Everyone else is damned.
Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, and Enver Hoxha
Pick up a book every once I a while.
Religion isn’t the root of all evil lol. People have been killed in the name of aithism, capitalism, science, expansion, gold, resources and yes sometimes religion. It’s not like religion is the big thing we go to war over.
We are at war with Iran right now and religion has nothing to do with it at all.
Dude! You should’ve said that from the beginning! I’m a reasonable person too who just likes to talk!
Stalin killed arguabley for aithiesm. He definitely killed people for thier beliefs….
But I understand your question “did they kill for aithiesm (why can’t I spell that lol)”
No…. But if you acknowledge nopolean of France wasn’t killing people FOR aithiesm. You also have to admit no one was fighting the crusades to actually protect the holly land.
He’ll Donald trump and his followers say he was appointed by Jesus and practically worship him. Does that make the Iran conflict a holy war?
No religion doesn’t have anything to due with it.
I’ve been drinking so go easy and assume I meant things in good faith
So what you’re saying is if Bob tells me (your name) has a flying tiger, and I later find out you don’t have a flying tiger… you no longer exists?
They did not say someone named Jesus did not exist.
There’s a difference between believing “Joe who had a tiger and a bear and an elephant”, and assuming that there might have been 3 different Joe’s, one with a tiger, one with a bear and one with an elephant, each of them in a different period. Saying “Joe with 3 animals did not exist” does not imply that those Joe’s did not exist.
I’m not a historian but what I’ve heard (must have been on Alex O’Connor’s podcast) is that even some of the possible historical Jesuses (or “Jesusi” :D) had things going on that were not compatible with what the biblical Jesus was all about. (Such as being cult leader proclaiming that world will end in few years.)
people exist, plumbers exist, people named mario exist, is there a plumber that can grow twice his size, shot fireballs using a flower, can jump four times his height unassisted, or fights a giant sentient reptile that breaths fire? no.
you can argue jesus was a man, but he is not the jesus of the bible.
A lot of stories about dinosaurs. We are confused about exactly how their feathers would look.
We know they existed tho.
It’s not probably not. It’s probably so. It’s just an argument about what exactly happened.
Do we know how the pyramids were built? No. But we know it wasn’t aliens.
There is confusion but not like people think.
Much like the pyramids we can assume Jesus existed. What exactly happened to which Jesus… that’s confusing but no one is denying there was a man. The pyramids are fact.
One of those? Is there a lot of people who say dinosaurs existed so Jesus must exist? That would be a very strange argument for anyone to make.
Nice straw man argument. Have you named your straw man yet? I’ll call him Dylon . Right bring the Easter bunny in. Do you enjoy wrestling with the straw man argument you made up? Be careful its tick season lol
There’s a good chance he existed. The religious stuff you can say what you want but can’t confidently say he didn’t exsists.
I can fairly confidently say he didn’t exist because half of his back story is stolen from older stories still. At best there was a guy (not named jesus, that is for sure) who started a cult and got some followers and got a lot of the older lore mixed in. Either he did this himself, or (more probably) writers later mixed in things to create “JFC”
If a historical person existed named “Jesus” who was also a vocal proponent of Jewish reform, existed that does not make the “Jesus” in the bible a real person. These two people would be mutually exclusive. Real people can’t preform magic. Real people are not born to virgins. Real people cannot be resurrected from the dead after days. There is no person who ever existed who could walk on water and turn water to wine. That “Jesus” is fiction through and through. The Bible is a story book. A book of fables. At best it’s historical fiction. Christian Jesus is a fantasy.
So what you’re saying is if Bob tells me (your name) has a flying tiger, and I later find out you don’t have a flying tiger… you no longer exists?
Hate religion all you want but don’t shit on history. In all likelihood there was a Jesus the story is based off of. Who was probably real. We have lots of non religious documents that mention him. The Quran mentions him. He probably existed as a person.
Like you exist as a person even though you don’t have a flying tiger.
Militant atheists are just as problematic as religious zealots.
Both annoying, pushy, and insisting you’re way is the only way. Everyone else is damned.
It’s the same playbook lol.
Lol
Trying to be the enlightened centrist and saying this. Show me the genocides being committed currently in the name of atheism.
I dont particularly care, I have religious friends but come on.
Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, and Enver Hoxha
Pick up a book every once I a while.
Religion isn’t the root of all evil lol. People have been killed in the name of aithism, capitalism, science, expansion, gold, resources and yes sometimes religion. It’s not like religion is the big thing we go to war over.
We are at war with Iran right now and religion has nothing to do with it at all.
So i don’t really want to read for this subject but i like conversation. Not trying to facetious.
Did Stalin, Zedong, etc really kill because of atheistic principles? Or more politically?
Dude! You should’ve said that from the beginning! I’m a reasonable person too who just likes to talk!
Stalin killed arguabley for aithiesm. He definitely killed people for thier beliefs….
But I understand your question “did they kill for aithiesm (why can’t I spell that lol)”
No…. But if you acknowledge nopolean of France wasn’t killing people FOR aithiesm. You also have to admit no one was fighting the crusades to actually protect the holly land.
He’ll Donald trump and his followers say he was appointed by Jesus and practically worship him. Does that make the Iran conflict a holy war?
No religion doesn’t have anything to due with it.
I’ve been drinking so go easy and assume I meant things in good faith
They did not say someone named Jesus did not exist.
There’s a difference between believing “Joe who had a tiger and a bear and an elephant”, and assuming that there might have been 3 different Joe’s, one with a tiger, one with a bear and one with an elephant, each of them in a different period. Saying “Joe with 3 animals did not exist” does not imply that those Joe’s did not exist.
I’m not a historian but what I’ve heard (must have been on Alex O’Connor’s podcast) is that even some of the possible historical Jesuses (or “Jesusi” :D) had things going on that were not compatible with what the biblical Jesus was all about. (Such as being cult leader proclaiming that world will end in few years.)
He said Jesus is a fictional figure. He probably existed and yes there were more than one person with similar but that doesn’t change my argument.
If you say “this is Bob and he has a tiger” and I find out he does not have a tiger… he still exists as a person.
But you say “the stories about Bob don’t line up with any specific Bob”
Okay, that doesn’t stop Bob from being just because someone got a story wrong.
now you are just talking about some different guy named bob.
mario is based on a person, but mario is a fictional character
Mario is based on a plumber. Do plumbers exist?
people exist, plumbers exist, people named mario exist, is there a plumber that can grow twice his size, shot fireballs using a flower, can jump four times his height unassisted, or fights a giant sentient reptile that breaths fire? no.
you can argue jesus was a man, but he is not the jesus of the bible.
Right so Jesus existed . Glad we agree.
The way I see it is I said “Jesus at the very least existed and was vocal enough to be mentioned “
You’re argument is stomping your feet and saying “but that wasn’t YOUR Jesus so you are wrong”
It’s sounds really pathetic hearing you two try to disprove my idea of Jesus doesn’t exist when you haven’t even ask who I think Jesus was lol.
You don’t even know what my argument is you just know I’m wrong lol. Pathetic.
So you say non religious stuff mention him then mention the Quran. Yep good argument there.
You’ll notice the Quran was said separately from the other stuff. I separated the two because it’s a religious book but not the Bible.
Oh so believe he converted water to wine was born from a virgin mother and died and reerected three days later.
No I’m saying don’t ignore history. I’m not pushing any religion. Just saying the man probably existed .
Or probably not, as most of his backstory is taken from older stories
A lot of stories about dinosaurs. We are confused about exactly how their feathers would look.
We know they existed tho.
It’s not probably not. It’s probably so. It’s just an argument about what exactly happened.
Do we know how the pyramids were built? No. But we know it wasn’t aliens.
There is confusion but not like people think.
Much like the pyramids we can assume Jesus existed. What exactly happened to which Jesus… that’s confusing but no one is denying there was a man. The pyramids are fact.
Oh god, another one of those…
Dinosaurs existed, so Jeebus must have existed too!
NO WE CANNOT!
…
Seriously, this is how you sound. You are defending that santa claus really exists because pyramids exist too.
One of those? Is there a lot of people who say dinosaurs existed so Jesus must exist? That would be a very strange argument for anyone to make.
Nice straw man argument. Have you named your straw man yet? I’ll call him Dylon . Right bring the Easter bunny in. Do you enjoy wrestling with the straw man argument you made up? Be careful its tick season lol