Anecdotally, most current or former homeschooled kids I meet seem pretty socially awkward. I wonder if It’s because the miss-out on the opportunity to learn how to socialize properly as children. But maybe I’m being too critical, idk.
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Homeschooling is rarely successful and deprives children of the chance to socialize and practice it. As well a lot of the people who do it use it as a method of indoctrination for religious reasons.
“Think you can provide more resources and well thought out and efficiently applied curriculum than a centuries old and constantly corrected product of society that draws on every corner of society and hundreds of lifelong full-time employees whose entire lives revolve around hopefully improving society and giving the confident, respectful, and considerate qualities to children? That system isn’t perfect and is compromise and resource-short hell… Why not give it a REAL half-assing and short-change your kids EVEN WORSE!”
It’s hubris and/or abuse, and should be illegal barring exceptional circumstances.
Public schools should be well funded.
Private schools should also be illegal.
If there is one thing going to highschool in Texas taught me it’s that Germany was communist during WW2.
Well, also that it may be good if you have time to NOT neglect the child and can get mentors/tutors to help them.
But even then they have to go to school at some point to learn socializing, no?
I lived in an area with bad schools for about 4 years. I spent time in public school and a number of church schools. Religion fucked me up pretty good, but at least my parents weren’t crazy religious nuts, so I at least got to come home to some normalcy. I didn’t meet a lot of home school kids until way later. I have met several that are brilliantly well adjusted human beings, who were non-religious homeschoolers who were doing it for other reasons. I’ve met other people who think water boils because god wills it and sickness is caused by demons latching onto your unconfessed sins.
I’m generally against it in most circumstances, but I do think it depends largely on the intention of the parents. If we had better public schools, I think the amount of homeschoolers would naturally drop quite a bit.
I went to school where I live and it was abysmal. My oldest 2 I homeschooled for a few years, eventually found a good school they could go to. Those 2 had a much better attitude towards school than the later ones who had to go from pre-K, (they felt more in control of their own education) and similar academic achievement in the end.
I sure as heck could not have homeschooled them through high school. And they did plenty of things with other kids, and more with mixed age groups than school kids do.
It’s possible the kids you met who were awkward were homeschooled because they were so socially awkward and not the other way around. Mine can socialize circles around me, and I’d say the 2 who started later are more socially adept.
ETA 2 things. Homeschooling is well supported by the school district, kids get tested every year. And no we are not religious.
Unless you’re an expert on child development and education, then you’re not qualified.
I have neighbours homeschooling their kids, that ate similarly aged to mine. Sometimes we see them at the school playground on the weekend. The kids seem fine, the parents seem normal. They mentioned they take the kids to a weekly home school kids play date, and there is some sort of education resource worker that makes sure the kids are learning what they need to.
The majority that defend homeschooling do so on pure ideological grounds. They accuse schools of indoctrinating kids, but they want to personally ensure their kids are indoctrinated the way they (the parents) deem correct. “Sex is evil! Women should submit to men! <Ethnicity> is pure evil! Never question me!” - these parents should NEVER homeschool their kids.
There are very few situations where homeschooling would be better for the kid over traditional schooling, and those situations are usually remedied with the school getting its shit together and being at least decent.
The school can’t always get better though and can even be harmful to kids, due to bad teachers, bad staff, bad classmates or general precarious conditions, especially if the kid has any sort of special need (autism, down’s syndrome, etc). Changing schools isn’t always an option, whether due to distance or cost of moving back and forth every day, and that’s usually when homeschooling should be done.
I was homeschooled for pretty much the exact opposite ideological reasons, and am so grateful to have had the chance to explore and develop without institutional constraints. Some great years traveling in a bus and seeing how a wide variety of people lived. To me homeschooling is an ideal of time commitment to a child that most people are unable to achieve, and offloading that opportunity to a centralized authority while you pursue a paycheck is a tragic compromise
School is more than just what you learn. It’s crucial for development to socialize with children your age, and close to your age. There’s a reason the stereotype that homeschoolers are socially awkward exists
There’s plenty of opportunity to socialize as a homeschooler. The stereotype exists because many (most?) homeschooled kids are so because the isolation and rejection of social norms is the point. But there’s also a demographic of them that exist because they live in bad school districts and don’t have the money for private school.
Neighborhood kids form bonds with other neighborhood kids regardless of the school they go to. Homeschool kids are more often than not allowed to join their local school sports teams as well. I think you’d be surprised how many people you’ve met who were homeschooled that you’d never guess.
…when someone seems normal you aren’t looking to explain their differences. The chance to socialize in the real world as opposed to a classroom environment is one of the things I value most about that period. We clearly have very different perspectives, in my community yours might be socially awkward. And that’s ok, it is in no way “crucial” for you to think feel or act the way I do :)
I think it’s a big mistake, but don’t think ‘the law’ should get involved, either.
Include meals, that’s a good incentive and will help a lot of kids that are fed total garbage at home.
if we can’t feed children what are we even doing?
Big part of school is training on how to be socialized into society. Interact with people who are different than you. Homeschooling provides none of that.
Former homeschooled kid here. Everything I’m about to say is personal experience but I’ve known many other homeschooled people throughout my life.
With homeschooling you get out what you put in. If the parents take the time to really dial in to the child’s learning needs and set up adequate socialization through after school activities or meetups with other homeschoolers I truly believe it is one of if not the best option for raising a child.
That being said, most of the people choosing to homeschool are not doing it to give their kids the best. Many are narcissistic conservatives who deny modern science and homeschool not to teach the child but to indoctrinate. They don’t consider mental health important. They don’t consider friends important. They consider the kid learning the Bible and toughening up important. The parents are often social outcasts themselves because of their more strict beliefs.
Homeschooling is not a problem and doesn’t result in anything directly, it’s the people choosing to homeschool not being equipped to do it properly. In my experience the kind of parent who would choose homeschooling is likely to produce a social awkward kid even if they don’t homeschool.
TL:DR - Homeschooling good. Most everyone who chooses homeschooling bad. Hug your kids.
This… I remember one of our neighbors finally letting their homeschooled kid go to public school and play with us. We had to teach him how to run. I remember my young mind being baffled by this. He was incredibly naïve and overly trusting so he got bullied mercilessly and beat up at recess. His mother did him no favors by being really nasty with us when we went over to take him fishing, exploring, etc. We moved away and i wonder what happened to him… he was a gentle soul.
Aw that’s so rough on the poor guy, it likely did him a world of good moving forward that he had friends like you to open his eyes, even if it was a short time.
I had the reverse happen where I was teaching the public school kids that you could climb trees. I’m sure it wasn’t mindblowing for them, but they had just never thought about it before. We were like 13 at the time.
I had a wonderful experience too, my parents really put their heart and soul into me and my siblings and we had a local homeschooling group larger than one of the nearby schools that did minimum weekly outings and the like.
I’m an electrical engineer now, my sisters are lawyers, bankers, and concert pianists, my brothers are studying for medical doctorate and running a forge, and many of my friends are in similar places.
Just to add my voice to yours, it’s absolutely all about what you put into it. I have deep lifelong friendships from my homeschooling days, the heavy intent our parents had on the social aspect was imperative. I joined after school activities by the local high-schools later on and met some great public school friends.
The natural flow of learning time-wise vs the rigidity of public school is a studied and proven to be far more conducive to education, as well, and I wish public schools would learn this.
Mine and my siblings’ and friends’ experience was amazing compared to most if not all of my public school friends, and it was all thanks to our parents pouring their lives into giving us all of the knowledge and environments we needed. It can definitely not go this way, if the parent isn’t actively providing those environments, but it is and always will be an issue of the tool being used incorrectly.
Just need to correct one small thing.
I had a wonderful experience too
My experience was absolutely terrible and I would have been better off in a public school. My parents were proof of why homeschooling is the wrong choice 99% of the time
I was homeschooled by such parents as you describe, and I still have social difficulties in my 30’s because of it. I also wasn’t hugged at all, but I don’t think that alone would have fixed it 😛
Yeah the ones I know only see Facebook news (pushed by Russian bots and right wing propoganda) about how public schools are evil and bad and you should definitely send your child to private religious school (who definitely won’t rape them) or home school them to install horrible values to ensure they grow up to vote regressive .
Its bad man.
I have friends in the old country who do homeschooling. They’re the kind who do it for good reasons. The amount of controls, checks and justifications the parents have to go through constantly is huge. Constantly prove the teaching methods, program, environment, everything. So there are ways to permit homeschooling that seem better it seems.
It is illegal here, parents are required to send their children to school for a minimum of nine years.
This is to protect the interests of the child, Sweden has several laws that are focused on the child’s rights over the parent’s authority.
I have read arguments from people in the US who homeschool their kids about how it is the parent’s right to manage their children’s education.
But to me that just seems wrong, in Sweden children have the right to a high quality education that follows a proper plan and is done by professional teachers, it is the duty of the parents to make sure the children attends their education.
Homeschooling means that the government can’t verify that the education the children receive is up to standards set by the department of education.
Just about all education in Sweden is free to Swedes and EU citizens, so there is zero financial reason to do homeschooling over regular schooling here.
Your books have the same propaganda filtered down from the US and Israel as most of the EU right? And a kinda weird section on WWII like in Switzerland?
Do try to remember even though your government is relatively competent it is not really your interests or that of your children those institutions serve. It’s still rich old men who want valuable workers.
Don’t believe me, visit Brussels or an Ikea. You seem too comfortable with your education system.
I’ve heard that before, and would be a fan of making it illegal in America as well, there’s a strong argument that doing so would improve the quality of American schools significantly.
The idea being that if rich children go to public schools then the rich will be more focused on improving public school instead of attempting to defund it
In the US, the quality of schools varies drastically based on where you live. There’s no guarantee that kids are getting a good education unfortunately
The Swedish school system didn’t pop up out of thin air either. Of course you’ll have to invest in the system for it to work.
right but we have a significant portion of the population trying to privatize it, which by design makes it unequal
we don’t have national education policy.
education is 90% determined by the town or city you live in. even states have minimal influence over local districts.
schools in the same district, and schools a few kim apart, can have wildly different standards and outcomes.
the only major factor is basically, how wealthy your zipcodes/parents were. that is the overwhelming determination of your educational outcome, because richer parents value education more than non-rich parents.
in poorer communities, education is seen negatively and it’s actively discouraged.
the only major factor is basically, how wealthy your zipcodes/parents were. that is the overwhelming determination of your educational outcome, because richer parents value education more than non-rich parents.
in poorer communities, education is seen negatively and it’s actively discouraged.
I think you’re about to be visited in the night by three ghosts.
Right. Then you’d have to start by making a national education policy. I’m not saying it will be easy (Sweden did by no means get it perfect right away, nor is it perfect now) but unless you start somewhere you won’t ever get to a better place.
Anytime we do that things get way worse than they were previously. No Child Left Behind accelerated the destruction of our education system by basically punishing poor schools for being poor. Our Federal government should get out of education policy entire. It should provide funds for school construction and infrastructure.
True
But there is more or less a guarantee that kids that are being homeschooled are not getting a good education.
Homeschooling means that the government can’t verify that the education the children receive is up to standards set by the department of education.
Well… They do tests. They’re sent to outside test centers so no one can cheat for them and mask their incompetence or something. Doesn’t everyone periodically run tests to ensure they’re on track?
EDIT: Wow, I’ve been misled… Thanks for the enlightenment, everyone. I used to work with homeschooled students. Maybe the vetting quality was better back then or something…
I was homeschooled in the US and no such testing was required, and it still is not required in my state. I think it absolutely should be required if homeschooling is going to continue to be allowed.
You say this but I know someone homeschooled for years who learned next to nothing and is ruined for life because instead of having lessons for hours every day, he played videogames. You’re suggesting he could not have gotten away with that, but he certainly did.
You mean the national tests?
Sure, we have those, they take place in your normal school at the same time all over the country.
Ok, say a child is homeschooled for five years, and then fails a national test, that means that they have effectively lost a lot of their best time to learn, and they need to retake the subjects to catch up.
Proper schooling allows for students with special needs to get extra help.
I was one of those students, I was on the spectrum of having light autism, possibly some ADHD/ADD and similar stuff, I got an assistant teacher in school for several years, and even went to a smaller class specifically tailored towards students with my kind of mental issues, as I grew up I became more independent and learned to live with my difficulties, these days I don’t consider myself to have any real problems from my earlier diagnosis, and can even use them to my advantage.
I got the help I needed, when I needed it, while attending mostly normal classes and getting socialize with fellow students.
The socializing part was hugely important for my development, without that I would not have been able to go as far as I have.
When I look at homeschooling, I see it as parents denying their children a proper education, often to force their own warped worldview onto their children, this obviously comes from someone who experienced a well functioning school, even if I was bullied at times.
TL;DR: Testing only shows the result of time spent in education, it can’t catch students as they are about to fall through the cracks as a proper teacher can during lessons, this means that a homeschooled student that fails the test has lost a lot of opportunities to get extra help during their schooling.
not really. i did the ACT and maybe one other state regulated test and i was homeschooled my entire life.
Americans value individual choices over collective responsibilities.
Homeschooling her is predominantly for those who fell they are not a part of our mainstream culture or that culture is corrupting. A lot of religious and other minority belief groups practice it.
Every homeschooled person I’ve met has lacked all tact but YMMV. I haven’t met anyone that was homschooled after leaving university so no clue if that improves over time.
I briefly dated a girl who was homeschooled. She was a very nice girl, but holy fuck was she awkward in social settings. So many references that people our age should get would go right over her head. She was also from a well off family so when she didn’t get these things, she kind of made it out to be like a class issue. “Oh that’s from a rap song is it? We were never big on rap in our household.” Well, we’re you living under a rock? You don’t know to the window, to the wall?
I will give her parents credit. She was very well read and learned to play a lot of instruments. She was very knowledgeable of the arts, but anything pop culture related was clearly a no go in her childhood/ young adulthood, and it made her quite dull.
Her brother was also fucking creepy man. I got real serial killer vibes from him. They were socially very similar, and I’m pretty sure the brother was closeted and gay. I had just assumed that he was out by the way he spoke, and acted, then one day she said something about how he needs a girlfriend. I said something along the lines of “are you sure he’s looking for one?” And she got super offended and said she doesn’t know why everyone thinks her brother is gay, and that men always hit on him which he supposedly hated. That could also just have been a lack of socialization and picking up on societal norms? Maybe he actually was straight, idk but he acted and looked very much the part. All in all the vibe was super off with them.
I think kids need to socialize to develop correctly. That girl, her brother and the handful of other homeschooled people I’ve met in life very much have reinforced that belief. I especially am worried about this current crop of anti vax types with little to no critical thinking skills home schooling their children. The HBO documentary - “This Place Rules” covered this briefly, and I worry for those children. I have a friend who has similar fringe beliefs and has talked about homeschooling his kids. I hope for that kids’ sake they actually send him to school because if not, he’ll be sounding like the kids in the video below.
