Oh shut the fuck up. When I went to school I the 90s, you weren’t even allowed to attend class if you were not vaccinated. They’d send you home and you couldn’t come back until you provided proof that you were completely up-to-date on your shots. Nobody complained about it, and guess what? Nobody died, developed autism, their blood didn’t become magnetic, either.
Being fully vaccinated was not only accepted, it was required*. And then Facebook came along and gave idiots like you a platform to spread lies and misinformation, fueled by an algorithm designed to confirm your misinformed biases so that* you stay on the website longer and they get more money. All the major social platforms do it now, YouTube, Twitter, etc. You’re only shown what you want to see, never any dissenting opinions or facts.
And that’s how you get the anti-vax movent. Billionaires have capitalized on stupidity for their own selfish gains. And you fell for it, hook line, and sinker.
That’s why independent open source platforms like Lemmy are crucial. They don’t weaponize ignorance for profit.
Edit: I’m caught up on all modern vaccines too, including COVID. Still doing fine.
Not even the 90s, colleges up to the 2020s required your vaccines all be up to date. Knew someone who got screwed on having to pay out of pocket for a chicken pox vaccine their parents never got them as a kid and they weren’t able to buy books that semester because of it. American healthcare system is whack, vaccines should be free.
I remember whole class trips to local clinic to get vaccinated, because every parent knew someone from childhood someone who was negatively affected when there were no vaccines.
As for social media I think major contributor of polarization is actually a down vote button. Every action, every comment prompted the content so naturally the most controversial will go to the top.
This is why I’m still not that happy about Lemmy instances that disable this, because it promises this, but I guess if the community is coated and also that other instances can down vote, then perhaps it isn’t as bad.
They aren’t anti-vax in general though. They didn’t have a problem with the vaccines used in the 90s and neither do I.
COVID vaccines were and are different, at least the ones used in the west. China and Cuba used traditional vaccine types such as inactivated vaccines which contain whole dead viruses. These are cheap and easy to mass manufacture and have been used for decades.
USA vaccines used mRNA which was a newer and more experimental technique that hadn’t seen deployment at this scale ever before. The UK vaccine ChAdOx1 used a different technique involving using another virus as a vector (specifically an adenovirus). Again this is a new and somewhat experimental technique. Now the UK vaccine is at least reasonably easy to manufacture and distribute. The mRNA vaccines on the other hand were extremely difficult to distribute as they required very low temperatures to be stored, basically cryogenic temperatures. This required new techniques to be developed to distribute and administer them at the scale required, and was very difficult for the global south to do. They were also more expensive.
So you could argue that at least some of the vaccines (mRNA type) were a cash grab or not suited for global use and were just a way to get more money for big pharma. If this is actually true I have no idea.
In terms of effectiveness this is where it gets interesting. None of these vaccines were as effective as originally thought. They often did not stop people getting infected as was originally claimed (supposedly more than 90% effectiveness for mRNA vaccines). This is why COVID is still in circulation today. The vaccines did reduce symptoms and hospitalisation, which is certainly better than nothing, but it’s also not what was promised. So yeah I can understand why people are pissed. It also seems that using the more expensive and supposedly more effective vaccine types was basically pointless as traditional vaccine types or the cheaper UK vaccine would have worked just fine.
They often did not stop people getting infected as was originally claimed (supposedly more than 90% effectiveness for mRNA vaccines). This is why COVID is still in circulation today.
Like every vaccine, it prevented sickness in some people and attenuated it in others.
The reason why COVID is still around is the same reason why the flu is still around. It mutates a lot.
COVID does not undergo as rapid antigenic shift as influenza viruses. It’s more closely related to cold viruses (hence coronavirus which are cold viruses) which generally mutate more slowly.
So I don’t think this is the whole reason even if it’s part of the explanation. There are other parts of the viruses behaviour and characteristics that maybe could explain this.
It doesn’t really make a difference for my point though. The vaccines were substantially less effective than promised. We also didn’t have to use experimental vaccine techniques and could have saved money by using cheaper vaccines.
Whether or not this was the case, it doesn’t absolve people who refused to get vaccinated.
Did they over-promise and under-perform? Perhaps, but you’d have to go look up who promised what and compare that with the actual effectiveness of the vaccine, and I’m not sure what the point of that would be.
There are multiple clear reasons to do this actually. We have COVID inquiries in my country the UK. Part of that is looking at excessive spending on unnecessary or inappropriate equipment and corruption with regards to spending. Looking at vaccine manufacturers is important as it’s the governments job to regulate these things. They are the ones who paid for the vaccines and determined who got what type of vaccine and in what order. If there was a possibility to vaccinate people faster and more efficiently more people could have survived and our economy might not be quite so bad. It’s also possible that serious side effects caused by the vaccines could have been reduced. We can and should hold both the NHS and the pharmaceutical companies accountable for what they have and haven’t done.
Furthermore we should continue pursuing improved vaccines in the name of eradicating the disease. There was talk of a new vaccine called nova vax. I am now wondering what happened to it.
As for “absolving” people who didn’t get the vaccine. I am not sure what to say here. I don’t think you should guilt people over decisions they made about their own body. That’s a morally questionable thing to do. I say this as someone who got three shots of vaccine for COVID.
Your if it fully worked, the virus would have died out idea would only work if everyone in a population got vaccinated and that population didn’t have any contact with anywhere else where some people weren’t vaccinated. There weren’t any regions where everyone got vaccinated, so it’s not applicable to the real world.
Pretty sure this is a misunderstanding of epidemiology. To prevent an outbreak you need only get the r value below 1. The r value being the average number of people and infected person passes the disease onto. That’s why we were able to successfully eliminate smallpox and suppress measles and other common diseases in developed countries. Even in countries where most people got vaccinated for COVID like my home in the UK this did not happen. There are still outbreaks of the disease in places with high rates of vaccination. This tells me we are in need of either a better vaccine or a new strategy like anti virals. There was actually talk of improved vaccines like nova vax at one point.
COVID was more infectious than things like flu, and people who avoided the vaccine typically also were more likely to break lockdown and social distancing rules, so the r value managed to be close to/above one just from unvaccinated people (or people whose vaccines were for earlier strains) passing the virus on to other unvaccinated people. Breakthough cases obviously make things worse, but when one unvaccinated person typically passes it on to at least one other unvaccinated person, even if vaccinated people never got COVID again, it would still have stuck around, and that’s not the vaccine’s fault. A virus won’t go away until the r value is below one in all subpopulations.
The figures for effectiveness that were around 90% weren’t for getting the virus and passing it on, they were for getting enough of the virus to show symptoms, which for COVID, is more (hence why people kept spreading the virus and thinking they were fine). For a standard vaccine like an annual flu jab, that figure would only be around 70%. The figures that were around 99.99-100% were for effectiveness against serious infection needing breathing assistance. E.g. of the first 100,000 people in the AstraZeneca study, none of them needed breathing assistance from a COVID infection from the early strains that the initial version of that vaccine protected against. There’s never been a flu jab that effective.
Appreciate your long response, but let’s not pretend that Covid is here in the US today for any other reason than bad policy and rampant political propaganda. It has absolutely little to nothing to due with mRNA vaccine efficacy and everything to do with the billion dollar bullshit machine deployed to make you question reality. This is clearly evident if you simply compare existing weekly US Covid death rates to anywhere else in the world that also recieved the mRNA vaccine.
We’re currently the only country in the world where Covid deaths are still happening weekly. Because Covid is now endemic here, and likely will be permanent. If you can find a single other country in existence that used mRNA vaccines and had a similar result (Japan, Ireland, Germany, France, Belgium, etc, etc) you might have a point.
But seeing as how the opposite is very clearly observable, mRNA vaccines being less effective has little to nothing to do with Covid still being in the US.
Hey I’m pro-vax and I’ve been 100% vaccinated my entire life from 1970s to present for everything except the covid-19 vax. Everything about COVID has been a psyop. As an Army veteran I even have the anthrax vaccine.
Everyone just ignoring the vaccine scepticism eh?
No that’s central to what quualifies it as a meme to me. The only funny thing in this oost is how he compares simpsons haters with
antivaccinatorswith any-vaxxers.
Oh yeah, haha, good catch
No we are ignoring typos; no grammar nazis here
Removed by mod
Oh shut the fuck up. When I went to school I the 90s, you weren’t even allowed to attend class if you were not vaccinated. They’d send you home and you couldn’t come back until you provided proof that you were completely up-to-date on your shots. Nobody complained about it, and guess what? Nobody died, developed autism, their blood didn’t become magnetic, either.
Being fully vaccinated was not only accepted, it was required*. And then Facebook came along and gave idiots like you a platform to spread lies and misinformation, fueled by an algorithm designed to confirm your misinformed biases so that* you stay on the website longer and they get more money. All the major social platforms do it now, YouTube, Twitter, etc. You’re only shown what you want to see, never any dissenting opinions or facts.
And that’s how you get the anti-vax movent. Billionaires have capitalized on stupidity for their own selfish gains. And you fell for it, hook line, and sinker.
That’s why independent open source platforms like Lemmy are crucial. They don’t weaponize ignorance for profit.
Edit: I’m caught up on all modern vaccines too, including COVID. Still doing fine.
Not even the 90s, colleges up to the 2020s required your vaccines all be up to date. Knew someone who got screwed on having to pay out of pocket for a chicken pox vaccine their parents never got them as a kid and they weren’t able to buy books that semester because of it. American healthcare system is whack, vaccines should be free.
Thanks for calling out the bullshit, friend. Mainstream science literacy is in a sad state.
Yeah! Here people are ignorant for free!
I remember whole class trips to local clinic to get vaccinated, because every parent knew someone from childhood someone who was negatively affected when there were no vaccines.
As for social media I think major contributor of polarization is actually a down vote button. Every action, every comment prompted the content so naturally the most controversial will go to the top.
This is why I’m still not that happy about Lemmy instances that disable this, because it promises this, but I guess if the community is coated and also that other instances can down vote, then perhaps it isn’t as bad.
This person also seems to think they cloned and murdered Dave Chappelle…
That’s one way of reconciling his earlier work with his TERF bullshit.
I thought that rumor was about Jim Carrey
Yeah, I’ve heard “they” do a lot of weird stuff
They aren’t anti-vax in general though. They didn’t have a problem with the vaccines used in the 90s and neither do I.
COVID vaccines were and are different, at least the ones used in the west. China and Cuba used traditional vaccine types such as inactivated vaccines which contain whole dead viruses. These are cheap and easy to mass manufacture and have been used for decades.
USA vaccines used mRNA which was a newer and more experimental technique that hadn’t seen deployment at this scale ever before. The UK vaccine ChAdOx1 used a different technique involving using another virus as a vector (specifically an adenovirus). Again this is a new and somewhat experimental technique. Now the UK vaccine is at least reasonably easy to manufacture and distribute. The mRNA vaccines on the other hand were extremely difficult to distribute as they required very low temperatures to be stored, basically cryogenic temperatures. This required new techniques to be developed to distribute and administer them at the scale required, and was very difficult for the global south to do. They were also more expensive.
So you could argue that at least some of the vaccines (mRNA type) were a cash grab or not suited for global use and were just a way to get more money for big pharma. If this is actually true I have no idea.
In terms of effectiveness this is where it gets interesting. None of these vaccines were as effective as originally thought. They often did not stop people getting infected as was originally claimed (supposedly more than 90% effectiveness for mRNA vaccines). This is why COVID is still in circulation today. The vaccines did reduce symptoms and hospitalisation, which is certainly better than nothing, but it’s also not what was promised. So yeah I can understand why people are pissed. It also seems that using the more expensive and supposedly more effective vaccine types was basically pointless as traditional vaccine types or the cheaper UK vaccine would have worked just fine.
Like every vaccine, it prevented sickness in some people and attenuated it in others.
The reason why COVID is still around is the same reason why the flu is still around. It mutates a lot.
COVID does not undergo as rapid antigenic shift as influenza viruses. It’s more closely related to cold viruses (hence coronavirus which are cold viruses) which generally mutate more slowly. So I don’t think this is the whole reason even if it’s part of the explanation. There are other parts of the viruses behaviour and characteristics that maybe could explain this. It doesn’t really make a difference for my point though. The vaccines were substantially less effective than promised. We also didn’t have to use experimental vaccine techniques and could have saved money by using cheaper vaccines.
Whether or not this was the case, it doesn’t absolve people who refused to get vaccinated.
Did they over-promise and under-perform? Perhaps, but you’d have to go look up who promised what and compare that with the actual effectiveness of the vaccine, and I’m not sure what the point of that would be.
There are multiple clear reasons to do this actually. We have COVID inquiries in my country the UK. Part of that is looking at excessive spending on unnecessary or inappropriate equipment and corruption with regards to spending. Looking at vaccine manufacturers is important as it’s the governments job to regulate these things. They are the ones who paid for the vaccines and determined who got what type of vaccine and in what order. If there was a possibility to vaccinate people faster and more efficiently more people could have survived and our economy might not be quite so bad. It’s also possible that serious side effects caused by the vaccines could have been reduced. We can and should hold both the NHS and the pharmaceutical companies accountable for what they have and haven’t done.
Furthermore we should continue pursuing improved vaccines in the name of eradicating the disease. There was talk of a new vaccine called nova vax. I am now wondering what happened to it.
As for “absolving” people who didn’t get the vaccine. I am not sure what to say here. I don’t think you should guilt people over decisions they made about their own body. That’s a morally questionable thing to do. I say this as someone who got three shots of vaccine for COVID.
Your if it fully worked, the virus would have died out idea would only work if everyone in a population got vaccinated and that population didn’t have any contact with anywhere else where some people weren’t vaccinated. There weren’t any regions where everyone got vaccinated, so it’s not applicable to the real world.
Pretty sure this is a misunderstanding of epidemiology. To prevent an outbreak you need only get the r value below 1. The r value being the average number of people and infected person passes the disease onto. That’s why we were able to successfully eliminate smallpox and suppress measles and other common diseases in developed countries. Even in countries where most people got vaccinated for COVID like my home in the UK this did not happen. There are still outbreaks of the disease in places with high rates of vaccination. This tells me we are in need of either a better vaccine or a new strategy like anti virals. There was actually talk of improved vaccines like nova vax at one point.
COVID was more infectious than things like flu, and people who avoided the vaccine typically also were more likely to break lockdown and social distancing rules, so the r value managed to be close to/above one just from unvaccinated people (or people whose vaccines were for earlier strains) passing the virus on to other unvaccinated people. Breakthough cases obviously make things worse, but when one unvaccinated person typically passes it on to at least one other unvaccinated person, even if vaccinated people never got COVID again, it would still have stuck around, and that’s not the vaccine’s fault. A virus won’t go away until the r value is below one in all subpopulations.
The figures for effectiveness that were around 90% weren’t for getting the virus and passing it on, they were for getting enough of the virus to show symptoms, which for COVID, is more (hence why people kept spreading the virus and thinking they were fine). For a standard vaccine like an annual flu jab, that figure would only be around 70%. The figures that were around 99.99-100% were for effectiveness against serious infection needing breathing assistance. E.g. of the first 100,000 people in the AstraZeneca study, none of them needed breathing assistance from a COVID infection from the early strains that the initial version of that vaccine protected against. There’s never been a flu jab that effective.
Appreciate your long response, but let’s not pretend that Covid is here in the US today for any other reason than bad policy and rampant political propaganda. It has absolutely little to nothing to due with mRNA vaccine efficacy and everything to do with the billion dollar bullshit machine deployed to make you question reality. This is clearly evident if you simply compare existing weekly US Covid death rates to anywhere else in the world that also recieved the mRNA vaccine.
We’re currently the only country in the world where Covid deaths are still happening weekly. Because Covid is now endemic here, and likely will be permanent. If you can find a single other country in existence that used mRNA vaccines and had a similar result (Japan, Ireland, Germany, France, Belgium, etc, etc) you might have a point.
But seeing as how the opposite is very clearly observable, mRNA vaccines being less effective has little to nothing to do with Covid still being in the US.
I am not from the USA and was not talking specifically about the USA but go off I guess.
Hey I’m pro-vax and I’ve been 100% vaccinated my entire life from 1970s to present for everything except the covid-19 vax. Everything about COVID has been a psyop. As an Army veteran I even have the anthrax vaccine.
No, what happened is that the COVID pandemic coincided with a pandemic of stupidity, and you weren’t immune to either of them.
What brought you to this conclusion?