- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
cross-posted from: https://piefed.zip/c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world/p/1758477/using-fascist-technology-to-fight-fascism-still-promotes-fascist-technology
Using fascist technology to fight fascism still promotes fascist technology.
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Fine i’ll steal code the old fashioned way
My fucking company mailed me a flyer today to remind that I got access to a AI fitness trainer that is totally free just download an app to my phone. I so fucking pissed ripped in tiny fucking pieces. I fucking loath how they just blatantly assume we want use AI for everything. The very thing that if they could would replace us with it.
This is the weapon of the enemy. We do not need it. We will not use it.
-Batman, imaginary cartoon
Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.
-Mao Zedong, founder of the country eating everyone’s lunch.
Also, what the fuck does AI even mean in this context? LLM’s? Stable Diffusion Models? Yeah, they’re not great, they may get more accurate, but the evidence is currently pointing to them running out of road. Their uses are limited, that’s why most people don’t really use them, not because they’re “the weapon of the enemy”.
I imagine any historic materialist seeing this meme cringing so hard. Thanks for this comment so I can feel less insane about, you know, not swallowing idealistic imaginary nonsense.
Always glad to help. And yes, the cringe was palpable and something needed to be said.
AI is analogous to guns… how? Just because this meme is about Batman snapping a gun in half?
As for your other point, AI means those machine learning models that keep eating up all the electricity and water and computer parts we can feed them and making places near where datacenters are built worse places to live and allowing bosses to fire creative workers because while their output may be worse, it’s a lot cheaper, and encouraging their users to confide in them and being sycophantic and deliberately giving them an outsized opinion of their own abilities and whose makers are endeavouring to promote as a substitute for human connection with a worrying degree of success.
most people don’t really use them
Lol. Lmao. Roflmfao. ChatGPT’s monthly active user count is triple the population of the United States. People are asking LLMs for meal plans, exercise routines, recipes, write greeting cards for them, do their school essays for them because they think it’s a better writer than they are, bouncing ideas off it to see if they’re good (yikes!), you name it they’re doing it.
Also more than half the flyers going up around my university are obviously AI generated.
The meme presupposes the usefulness of AI, which is why everyone’s taking it as a given. If it isn’t useful, you don’t need to use normative arguments to stop people from using it, people will just naturally never find an opportunity to do so.
Also if you really can’t think of any ways to use a chatbot to advance your political goals you need to think harder. It just shows a lack of adaptability.
If people who didn’t know/didn’t care about all the ethical issues with ChatGPT didn’t find it useful, it wouldn’t have 900 million weekly users.
Obviously they’re useful. They still shouldn’t be used. Both because they do a bad job that is difficult for their users to see as bad, and because they’re 17 different kinds of unethical.
How many of those 900 million are being forced to use it?
Alright, fair, probably a lot, but I’d wager much less than half, and in my experience you’ll have an extremely hard time finding people who still don’t like LLMs when they’re not being shoved down their throats outside the Fediverse.
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Then use it, maybe get one of those Chinese models and hack the fash into oblivion! Don’t use it to generate AI slop propaganda, either in text of image form, you’re just eventually signing off your writing and art skills to the machines, and especially big tech.
You know what AI means, don’t play dumb.
AI is owned and used by major corporations and has horrible effects on pretty much everything, so people using it for “revolutionary” purposes are just giving more power to the powers that be.
Also, like, a real human writes lines for Batman. So a real person can be quoted for that line.
Batman uses AI too (Alfred Intelligence)
That is a very good point, Master Wayne. Thank you for calling me out. Going forward, I will try to avoid such mistakes.
What’s funny about this?
Absolutely nothing. Just more crybabies out of their pens, bawling about what they can’t possibly comprehend.
Dog, I comprehend AI perfectly well, including its monstrous, negative environmental impacts. In a world that was already on fire.
Woof woof! Unlike the servers of the social media service we’re on right now. They run on pixie dust and unicorn farts - which actually IMPROVE the environment and put out the fires.
Just like how getting a paper cut is the exact same as losing both of your arms! Bark bark! 🐶
Oh, yeah, don’t you know it! That’s why whenever I use AI on my laptop, all the oceans disappear, the rainforests fall down, and babies start dying for no other reason than I used my GPU for AI. Unlike when I use that same laptop to play video games. It’s the darndest thing! I’m glad you, and you alone, can comprehend the difference in usage.
Damn, you really are walking proof of how dumb ai users are.
Oh, yeah, I’m so dumb that I regularly confuse people for dogs while telling them how amazing my comprehension is.
Who said I can walk, though? Are you an ableist?
As much as I hate “AI” myself, rhetoric like this does more harm to movements resisting “AI” than to help them.
I believe this discussion is important, just the other day I was sad about people colluding inference and training like if both were having the same carbon footprint. I am not defending Sam Altman or anyone else. But we need to look at the facts for what they’re. Running a quantized local model, accepting latency and all, can make your use of LLMs as low as playing video games. I already said that in the past, and I only got downvoted. Maybe because everyone is hurt bout this technology, which is having detrimental consequences. I am not saying there aren’t any problems… but I am accepting the world for what it is, as GPT4 has said ~3 years ago: confetti has left the cannon.
So, we need to deal with this reality. The training done on data like open source code, or even copyrighted materials, will always be a debt.
Just like colonialism. And yet, we are not hating each other for “simple” stuff like eating chocolate or drinking coffee which is most often than not unethically sourced. OR the minerals that make our electronic devices…
Again, it’s not that I am vouching to ignore the issues. But I rather have us take the conversation as a debate or dilemma. Not just start attacking one another.
This all seems like that caricature of a vegan that hates the vegetarians for eating some cheese.
Look at the common ground. Here, on lemmy, more often than anywhere else, we have a big chunk of values and ethics in common.
Every time someone fires a confetti cannon I have to stay one or two hours longer after closing and clean that shit up. Every piece of it.
I do not want It everywhere and it can be a hazard If it goes in the wrong places.
Fighting local models is playing right into enshittification, though.
They WANT people to be scared of “AI.” They want people to keep talking about it as this existential anthropomorphized danger, not a tool theyve enshittified.
Because the thing that keeps Altman/Modi up at night is the proliferation of trifty, dirt cheap open weights models. Ones presented as tools, not intelligence. And every bit people rail against them is more ammunition to regulate those open models away, so they have a monopoly.
I was just talking about confetti. I only fight drunks. Don’t care what everybody does on their computer at home.
It’s a tool like any other. It can be used in a destructive and immoral manner or used where it works to improve the lives of people. Think about the alpha fold project and other such use cases.
LLMs existed before the AI craze. Sure, they’re useful in certain specific use cases. They aren’t a good substitute for a search engine or an artist or a therapist or any of the other myriad misuses now prevalent.
True, it’s just a tool and should be used where it best provides a real benefit. That’s essentially the core of my argument.
Lmfao no it isn’t you rube. It’s the most concentrated avatar of Capital in history. It’s constructed on endless desecration of art, music, poetry, literature, science, and more, all to give you shitty summaries of websites and your boss an excuse to fire you for a chatbot. Never before have the forces of Capital worked so hard to destroy the proletariat.
That’s one use of neural networks we do need to react to accordingly as a populace but it’s not the only use of those algorithms. I gave the example of alpha fold which has essentially solved the very hard problem of protein folding unlocking the door to developing cures for many diseases. The issue isn’t the tech, the issue is in some cases how it is being used. Think of nuclear power. We could have functionally limitless and clean power or we can end life on earth. The problem isn’t nuclear power, the problem is the actions of people.
Oof. I think you need to find a better example than nuclear power.
Why? Nuclear power is amazing for actually producing enough energy for global society and being clean. Renewables are amazing where they can be used.
Shut the fuck up you technofascist bootlicker. Claude is never going to love you, no matter what it says.
This doesn’t really have anything to do with what I’m talking about. Nuclear energy is awesome, nuclear bombs not so much. AI in applications where it works and makes the world better is awesome. AI in applications where it’s stealing, dehumizing, monitoring, degrading society not so much. It’s fundamentally just a mathematical structure with no intrinsic behavior on its own. What we use it for is up to us collectively.
Understand that the “AI” framing is pure marketing. It’s meant to get you to accept using LLMs to replace humans for every cognitive task. You have to decouple LLMs as a technology from the AI tech-bro hype train.
In the last few years it has taken on that connotation but the term artificial intelligence is much older than that and has a linguistic use. If for instance we digitize a full fruit flies brain that’s artificial intelligence or similarly if we develop other models with equally complex behavior. We can even go all the way back to mechanical automaton although mechanical systems are quite limited in performing dynamic and complex behavior.
These are sloppy & ugly, they’re tools of cowards
Batman the radlib
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this is cap. i will continue to use chinese ai and benefit from it. this sounds like blue maga panic lol
Replace with him breaking a brain and you have me
Nah, change with the times or get left behind.
I’m not afraid, give me those yummy downvotes.
Every AI-forward dev I know is worse at their job than the ones who don’t like it. They all think they’re doing something smart, but their output sucks and they end up being deadweight that people who actually think and work have to carry. Maybe its not that way everywhere, but it is undeniably the reality at my employer.
Yeah, could very well be. The “do absolutely everything with AI no matter what” idea is a circlejerk, too. (Just in very different spaces from this one)
On my project right now, I’m doing everything by hand. It just seems unlikely hallucinate-and-cull would be any faster at producing useful and well-architected networking logic. On the other hand, when it comes time to write a UI, spinning something up is probably worth it.
Fascists don’t create, they corrupt. Technology is neither fascist nor antifascist, those labels only make sense in the context of humans.
Be thoughtful about the services you use, the money you spend, and the data you entrust to others. Do your best to understand your tools as fully as you can. Strive to help others and do no harm, in your immediate impact and in your downstream effects. Don’t trust to heuristics like labeling certain technologies “fascist”; they are not and the more non-fascists there are who understand technology, the better equipped we will be to fight fascism.
There are definitely fascist technologies out there, that’s why we can say don’t build the fucking torment nexus.
Mass surveillance, torture devices, hostile architecture, the slanted toilet, the panopticon, those can only be used for evil.
The torment nexus isn’t a discrete thing. You can’t make thumbscrews without screws. Are the screws evil? If not, when does the composition of components become evil? I don’t think LLMs are evil for the same reason I don’t think thumbscrews are evil in and of themselves. Thumbscrews, like LLMs, lack the capacity for evil. It’s the people who turn technology against their fellow humans that I hold as my enemy, not the trappings of their mischief. Remove them from the equation, and the torment nexus becomes so much harmless scrap, ready to be beaten into plowshares.
I don’t know man, surveillance tech seems pretty fascist to me.
surveillance networks are made of computers and sensors, which are made of chips and wires. I don’t think chips and wires are fascist, I don’t think sensors and computers are fascist. I think the purpose to which they are put is the fascist part, and the purpose is pure human.
The individual components are no more fascist than the individual organs that put fascists together. What matters is the function of the end product. Flock cameras for example is surveillance tech and that’s their only purpose.
Critical thinking is a rare commodity on social media. The the AI hate is basically lemmy’s version of facebooks anti-vaxxers.
I wonder if it isn’t at least partially a psy op. This whole business of giving anyone who even looks at an LLM a scarlet letter, and refusing to participate in any critical evaluation of LLMs or other AI tools, plays right into the hands of those who would use LLMs to pollute, isolate, and destroy the free internet. The willfully ignorant will be the easiest to trap.
If you can read this: beware the day that internet discussions of mass manipulation go quiet. That silence is the death knell of freedom.
Ayup. I’ve noticed and wondered the same thing. Very logical and great ROI, it spreads itself
And the cost is what?
A little Thiel anti-christ buffoonery here, a little Zuck has to make a blog post about the wonders of the happy AI there?
Their biggest issue is just self correcting the sentiment gauge for their vanity, the machinery to ensure they are the only ones who use and control the tooling with proficiency is already in place from their perspective.
This is why I like capitalism. It turns choice into value, a vote if you will. Just needs guard rails for edge cases.
I can see the argument for local or at least open source models, but most people who use LLMs are using ChatGPT and other Big Tech LLM services, which are clearly run by fascists.
I got called unethical today for using a small-scale locally hosted open model trained on Wikipedia and Stack Exchange. A LOT of the anti-AI people are universalists that have decided carte blanche that it is an evil technology and everyone who uses it is bad.
Sure ya did buddy
Well they did, it took like 30s to check their last few comments
https://lemmy.zip/comment/28450273
Why act like an ass?
Yes, but it is very important to distinguish between LLMs, which are amoral math, and OpenAI et al, which are corporations run by fascists that offer LLM-based public surveillance / disinformation platforms. There is no technology on earth that cannot be bent to malign purpose if malicious people are inclined to do so. LLMs are just the popular useful technology du jour.
“amoral math” 🤣
Thank you. I just wrote this in another comment:
I’ve been an AI researcher for 12 years now. I work primarily in climate and environment, and right now I’m using AI for super resolution of wind field predictions, to better forecast wildfire spread. Prior to this project I was using AI and remote sensing to monitor and predict wheat crop health in northern India to feed into various food security monitoring systems (e.g. FEWSNET). There are millions of AI use cases that tangibly improve the world.
At the same time, those same underlying principles of AI are being used to develop tools to better surveil people, control them, and profit off of them so the tech fascists can gain even more control. Both things can be true. It’s the billionaires who are funding these massive investments that are evil. It’s always the billionaires.
Steel can be used to construct buildings and can also be used to construct weapons. You wouldn’t say steel is evil right?
I don’t believe your analogy holds water. I believe computers are a lot closer to steel than “AI” is, in that they’re both foundational technologies with a very very wide array of proven uses such that the benefits of the development and use of steel/computers far outweigh the associated costs. Weapons/“AI” on the otherhand are both specific, narrower applications of steel/computer technology with a few particular beneficial uses, but those uses pale in comparison to costs of the existence and development these technologies, so much so that both weapons and “AI” should be put on a metaphorical shelf out of reach until we as a global society can grow up to develop and use these technologies in a more responsible and conscientious manner.
I see what you’re saying, but they’re all on a continuum and it just depends where your perspective window lies. I could see AI as foundational to many new technologies in the future.
I agree we should shelf any AGI or ASI (which supposedly doesn’t exist yet), however I think AI has many tangibly beneficial applications. The problem comes from the incentive structure of the Epstein class and their investments into surveillance and profit extraction.
Could you directly address the use-cases that the person you replied to brought up, because they seem pretty important to this discussion to get swept aside?
Forecasting wildfire spread, feeding people better… finding novel drugs, curing illnesses, cheap accurate translation, these all “pale in comparison” to the costs? Even though those uses have all existed for years before ChatGPT?
Even most of of the local and “open” models are exploiting the work of others by training off unethically sourced data without even so much as consent.
There is such a thing as ethical AI, but damn near zero people are doing it that way.
